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RE: Supply system for newbies - 12/23/2008 8:50:23 AM   
82ndtrooper


Posts: 1083
Joined: 12/19/2008
From: tennessee
Status: offline 		great post, funny and lots of help

thanks for taking the time to write it.

(in reply to Strategiusz)
Post #: 31
RE: Supply system for newbies - 1/11/2009 4:33:06 PM   
Scott_WAR

 

Posts: 1020
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline 		I just got the download copy of the game a few days ago. The manual appears to have large gaps in it, many options arent listed, so I am assuming these were patched in, and the manual wasnt updated.
And I have to agree, by far one of the worst manuals I have seen for a wargame. I have seen a lot of bad manuals in other types of games, but this is the first manual for a wargame that doesnt bother to list half of the things that are absolute MUSTS to be able to play the game.
Fortunately the game is very good and its worth overlooking this problem, especially with the help Vic and community members constantly seem to give.

(in reply to 82ndtrooper)
Post #: 32
RE: Floating HQ possible? - 9/15/2009 10:01:03 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I don´t think that loading a HQ onto a ship will allow you to transfer supply from it. I recently played a WaW v32 game, and i at one point loaded my african HQ onto a freighter and sent it from egypt to the far side of libya. The next turn, all my units, under that HQ where out of supplies. So i don't think you can load up a HQ and make it redistribute supply from a ship.

(in reply to explorer2)
Post #: 33
RE: Supply system for newbies - 9/15/2009 10:04:32 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		4.1.3 And bridges, you want to control those as well, and keep them built, or your supply gets worse as well. Missing bridges can easily cause supplies to get rerouted a worse way or even worse, not get there at all. I experienced this with the big rivers in russia in WaW (v32) where i had a HQ on one side of the river, with half of its units, in good supply, and on the other half of the river, without good supplies. Bridges are really something you want to keep.

(in reply to zook08)
Post #: 34
RE: Supply system for newbies - 1/2/2010 10:17:16 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for taking the time to write this tutorial post. It was well written, entertaining and has greatly furthered my understanding of the game.

The concept of "manual modding" is a good one too. Perhaps all the tutorials should be collected together.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 35
RE: Supply system for newbies - 12/30/2010 6:16:18 AM   
poop17


Posts: 60
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline 		Great post! I learn so much !! thanks for zook08

< Message edited by Van Van -- 12/30/2010 6:18:20 AM >

(in reply to Strategiusz)
Post #: 36
RE: Supply system for newbies - 2/5/2011 10:47:37 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CSO_Talorgan

The concept of "manual modding" is a good one too. Perhaps all the tutorials should be collected together.


Hopefully the AT Gold manual will be the ultimate manual mod.

(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)
Post #: 37
RE: Supply system for newbies - 4/18/2011 2:05:30 AM   
AlanBernardo

 

Posts: 200
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Hello!

Is there somewhere or some calculation that is used to determine how much supply particular units use? For instance, I have 30 Infantry. How much supply will they use? Or I have 40 Light Tanks. How much supply do Light Tanks use? By "use" I mean what a unit might use to be in full readiness, etc.


Alan


(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)
Post #: 38
RE: Supply system for newbies - 11/19/2011 9:25:43 PM   
sjadow

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 11/4/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks much... This is very helpful

(in reply to zook08)
Post #: 39
RE: Supply system for newbies - 8/17/2014 4:45:18 AM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		Thank you, zook, for the amazingly detailed tutorial on supply.

I apologize for resurrecting this nearly three year old thread. I just wanted to say that I agree this manual is next to useless for explaining "how to play the game". I had to post a message just to learn how to do something as basic as building a unit, and how to put troops into a new empty unit I created. This stuff should be explained!!

I cannot believe that a game of this complexity would have such a poor manual. And the developer is so active on this forum and the Steam forum. Why isn't he improving this manual so new players can actually understand how to play this game?!? I get so frustrated with poor wargame manuals. We are paying top dollar for these games, we should have a manual that teaches us the game.

< Message edited by jglazier -- 8/17/2014 5:48:16 AM >

(in reply to sjadow)
Post #: 40
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/22/2021 6:44:35 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		I hoped I could manually transfer supplies to units OTHER THAN HQ so that unit could operate outside of supply range provided by HQs. I mean that horse carts would carry supplies instead of personnel, and thus unit could spend more turns outside of effective supply routes. No can do?

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 41
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/23/2021 6:00:40 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		While it is not possible to send supplies to land or air units directly, it is possible to send them to sea units. You can park it in a port, and send it supplies, or use shipping to send it while it is at sea. You can also drop air supplies on a unit, so that it gets supplies that way.

In some mods, there are units that carry extra supplies. This is not a feature of the non-modded game, but could be for a scenario too.

_____________________________

Creator of High Quality Scenarios for:
    Advanced Tactics Gold
    DC: Warsaw to Paris
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Try this Global WW2 Scenario: GD1938v3

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 42
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/23/2021 5:35:01 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		So if map is a ton of jungle (I'm playing it) with little RAW to build roads, then I should use HQ with horses packed with supplies for exploration. What is weight of supply, or how many supplies max can HQ move with? Or multiple HQs with short intervals to keep supplies flowing. Only to find & secure next RAW source to build roads more efficiently. Do I have the right idea? I know resource hexes can be upgraded and I have done so. Maybe air supply would be the way to go after all. My reasoning for wet tropical non-ocean random map was to stall AI as much as possible, thus give me more turns to figure the game & supply system out.

1 more thing if you can answer it. What does 1 sub-formation represent? Is it a platoon/battery or a company? How many should I have in a battalion, regiment, brigade, division, squadron, or wing?

< Message edited by Kuokkanen -- 3/23/2021 5:47:20 PM >

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 43
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/23/2021 7:00:09 PM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		As you have gathered roads are very important for supply. Keep plenty of trucks in HQ, and add road connections as you can. If you have rail connections then make sure you have trains. Playing on a jungle map is a good way to frustrate your supply task, but you know that already.

You can send supplies a good distance but it is unwise to have a single supply source.

A single infantry point is probably a company in most games, but it can vary by the scenario. In GD1938, which I play almost exclusively, the company seems the best match. The scenario designer will often publish the scale in the notes.

I hope this helps, and will try and come up with answers as your questions arise.

Chuck

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 44
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/24/2021 6:02:44 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

If you have rail connections then make sure you have trains.

As I recall, manual says that engineers build both roads and railroads at the same time. And I see it to be the case as I have played the game. (No roads when I started)

quote:

The scenario designer will often publish the scale in the notes.

Let's see... Nothing about unit scale under Statistics/Brief But there is this:
quote:

Created with the masterfile: generic.at2


So far, in addition of the starting HQ, I have made 2 new HQs. One is subordinate of Supreme HQ and I use it as supply depot. Second HQ is subordinate of supply depot HQ and I use it as division HQ, keeping it close to its combat units so they get to have HQP. Screenshot for a reference with supply route from Supreme HQ to cavalry unit (subordinated to depot HQ near middle because changing HQ to closer division HQ would drop readiness). Am I doing it right?

It seems to me that 1 carry capacity = 10 supply points. How many trucks do I need for division HQ with REQ/SEND OUT of 206 supply points? 2 trucks I presume, with 200 supply points per truck? Would more trucks in HQ increase supply range? Does movement and combat increase supply consumption beyond recovering readiness?

I got jungles and swamp while AI got fields and plains

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to cpdeyoung)
Post #: 45
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/24/2021 7:28:59 PM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline 
I got jungles and swamp while AI got fields and plains
When I play solo I never hesitate to re-roll the map. I will go into the editor to adjust terrain also.

After playing often enough you learn what features will give you the game you want, I like naval conflict, and sometimes I need a peninsula to be an island.

I build the map I want to play. I forget the details quick enough that fog of war still works for the map.

I will not do this all the time. Sometimes I want a certain map and sometimes I'll take what is given.

Chuck

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 46
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/25/2021 5:47:06 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

So far, in addition of the starting HQ, I have made 2 new HQs. One is subordinate of Supreme HQ and I use it as supply depot. Second HQ is subordinate of supply depot HQ and I use it as division HQ, keeping it close to its combat units so they get to have HQP. Screenshot for a reference with supply route from Supreme HQ to cavalry unit (subordinated to depot HQ near middle because changing HQ to closer division HQ would drop readiness). Am I doing it right?

I forgot to attach the screenshot!
Here it is THIS time. How bad have I messed up?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to cpdeyoung)
Post #: 47
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/25/2021 8:22:34 PM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		One thing I like to do is attach the supply sources, including the capitol to the HQ worth 122 and them move the Supreme HQ to that city. No particular reason to have that extra distance for the rest of the game.

That is a lot of green!

Chuck

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 48
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/27/2021 5:52:51 AM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have gone with an assumption that 1 sub-formation = 1 company/battery. With this assumption I have made a number of regiments with around a dozen sub-formations each. Up to 6 regiments (3 inf + arty, rec, and cav regiments) are subordinated under a division HQ, which are within 5 hexes from HQ most of the time. I REALLY need an answer to this: how many trucks do I need in a division HQ to distribute supplies? Assume sup.req = # for 6 formations up to 4 hexes from HQ in jungle, swamp, and low mountains, and further along the roads.

I have noticed that artillery regiment with 12 batteries (artillery sub-formations) does hefty amount of damage. Should I break it up to 3 battalions (4 arty sub-formations each + horses)? Would eat up political points and I have new division to raise and research to do...

< Message edited by Kuokkanen -- 3/27/2021 5:54:55 AM >

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to cpdeyoung)
Post #: 49
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/27/2021 1:07:15 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The number of trucks, horses, or any other formation that you might think of, does not increase the supply range of a HQ. It is assumed that the HQ is using abstracted ones already. What might help you is that chaining HQs together will allow you to have the supply range increased from that one. Each HQ so to speak has the same abilities as the Top one.

I noticed that you might not be calculating with this, as the supply route you've chosen to show is from off map, to the furthest unit of the Yellowish (122) HQ. It would be better to meassure it from the HQ that the units are assigned to.

Also I noticed that you infantry unit, on the lower half of the map is assigned to the purplish (34) HQ, and thus has a longer supply route than it might get other wise, if shifted to the yellowish (122) HQ.

_____________________________

Creator of High Quality Scenarios for:
    Advanced Tactics Gold
    DC: Warsaw to Paris
    DC: Community Project.

Try this Global WW2 Scenario: GD1938v3

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 50
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/27/2021 1:10:01 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:


I have noticed that artillery regiment with 12 batteries (artillery sub-formations) does hefty amount of damage. Should I break it up to 3 battalions (4 arty sub-formations each + horses)? Would eat up political points and I have new division to raise and research to do...


In general, you have to think economically with what you use your PPs for. At least that is the way I see it. If you find that 3 artillery in 4 units is the way for you, then do that, but realize you just used 1 extra PP for each formation (1 formation costs 1 PP to build), so you used 3 more than if you had them in 1 unit. On the other hand, if you find you need artillery more places than you have, 12 artillery might be on the heavy side..

_____________________________

Creator of High Quality Scenarios for:
    Advanced Tactics Gold
    DC: Warsaw to Paris
    DC: Community Project.

Try this Global WW2 Scenario: GD1938v3

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 51
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/27/2021 1:18:12 PM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		I use the supply layer button to see the sometimes complex interaction of supply and terrain. If my strategic demands call for a move into poor supply areas I move a HQ that way. I put trucks where needed to get the supply needed.

I don't think an answer to "how many trucks do I need in a division HQ to distribute supplies?" is a simple number. "You need enough" may not be a satisfying answer but it is how I do it.

Cargo trucks are valuable in multiple ways. I like having plenty.

Chuck

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 52
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/27/2021 5:27:02 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

Cargo trucks are valuable in multiple ways. I like having plenty.

Indeed. One eats 20 supply each turn. Did somebody say that trucks aren't needed for free supply delivery?

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to cpdeyoung)
Post #: 53
RE: Supply system for newbies - 3/27/2021 6:40:09 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		"Somebody" did say that. Even a HQ with nothing in it will receive and send out supplies.

_____________________________

Creator of High Quality Scenarios for:
    Advanced Tactics Gold
    DC: Warsaw to Paris
    DC: Community Project.

Try this Global WW2 Scenario: GD1938v3

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 54
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