I took it!! ... now what?

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I took it!! ... now what?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> I took it!! ... now what?

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I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 6:26:03 AM

alfrake

Posts: 70
Joined: 9/6/2005
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I've just taken Port Morseby in July 1942 (stock scen 15) and I realize I don't know what to do with it. Actually, I cannot think of anything I CAN do with it, except sit there and get bombed a lot. I don't remotely have the fighters to defend it against allied 4Es (my fighters are busy doing that over Rangoon) which means he can just bomb it continuously. Obviously I will pull out several of the 7 Divisions (or 8? or 9? I forget exactly) that were required to take it, but I fear whoever stays will get slowly bombed into oblivion.

At the moment, the only virtue I see is he cannot level bomb Rangoon. Is that the only use of the place? Do I have to keep the carriers relatively nearby in order to hold it against allied invasion? (torpedo bombers from Rangoon have never launched a strike at allied transports, even single ones, near Port Morseby).

Post #: 1

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 6:54:34 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

I've just taken Port Morseby in July 1942 (stock scen 15) and I realize I don't know what to do with it.

quote:

(torpedo bombers from Rangoon have never launched a strike at allied transports, even single ones, near Port Morseby).

I'll bet they haven't!

quote:

At the moment, the only virtue I see is he cannot level bomb Rangoon.

If your opponent has aircraft that can bomb Rangoon from Port Moresby, either he's cheating or the game has gone long enough for B-52's to be produced.

Are you talking about Rangoon or Rabaul?

I think the benefit of Port Moresby is to make him take the long way around Australia instead of using the Torres strait. You probably do need to evacuate most of the troops or you will lose them later. Make sure that you can pull out the remaining troops (the garrison) by air when the time finally comes.

(in reply to alfrake)

Post #: 2

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 8:24:17 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
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Your torpedo bombers (Betties and Nells)will never (strong word here, but I've not seen it happen) attack the little one ship TFs, and rarely a two ship TF. If that's all that he was sending through the area, then it is not surprising that your planes remained grounded. They were waiting for bigger game...

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 3

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 3:01:49 PM

Ramjet

Posts: 143
Joined: 2/19/2001
From: Charleston, SC. USA
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Don't get into a prolonged air battle in either location with your zero's. Wait until you can build Tony's and Tojo's and defend those locations with them. You have several high experienced Nate groups scrattered around the map, so upgrade them in the last few months of 42 then you can defend Rangoon and Port Moresby. Note: I sometimes wonder if the Japanese should even venture south of Truk as there is nothing of any value in the South Pacific.

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RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 3:09:16 PM

Mynok

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Joined: 11/30/2002
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The only value of PM is the denying of it to the Allies. It is a perfect 4E bomber base from which to destroy your SE Pacific holdings, especially Rabaul.

(in reply to Ramjet)

Post #: 5

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 3:14:05 PM

saj42

Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline

defending PM in stock game - not easy

defending PM in NikMod + AB map - now thats a different question

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Post #: 6

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 3:56:32 PM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
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PM in Allied hands, bad bad news for IJN shipping in long run. But it's not much use for Japanese unless you want to try to bomb Australia..but there is not much to bomb within Betty-range.

(in reply to saj42)

Post #: 7

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 5:23:45 PM

Bobthehatchit

Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: alfrake

I've just taken Port Morseby in July 1942 (stock scen 15) and I realize I don't know what to do with it. Actually, I cannot think of anything I CAN do with it, except sit there and get bombed a lot. I don't remotely have the fighters to defend it against allied 4Es (my fighters are busy doing that over Rangoon) which means he can just bomb it continuously. Obviously I will pull out several of the 7 Divisions (or 8? or 9? I forget exactly) that were required to take it, but I fear whoever stays will get slowly bombed into oblivion.

At the moment, the only virtue I see is he cannot level bomb Rangoon. Is that the only use of the place? Do I have to keep the carriers relatively nearby in order to hold it against allied invasion? (torpedo bombers from Rangoon have never launched a strike at allied transports, even single ones, near Port Morseby).

Mine the hell out of it, bring in some CD, a base force, maybe a few SNLF units and AA. Thats about it, pull back major inf units the point is to deny the base to the allies same as Gili Gili. Fly long range naval search and use your carrier to raid when you see a nice jucky convoy sneaking up the east coast of Aus.

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Wanted: ISDII Low millage in Imperial gray.

Just my 2 pence worth.
I might not be right.
Hell I am probaby wrong.
But thats my opinion for what its worth!

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Post #: 8

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 5:46:03 PM

Mark VII

Posts: 1838
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Brentwood,TN
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Your ownership prevents an Allied buildup of PM that leads to an early destruction of Rabaul and a splitting of your Southern perimiter. Pull out most of your invading Infantry Divisions leaving at most one and maybe only a brigade for a garrison. Bring supply and start digging in to bring the fort level up to a 9 ASAP. Base a MLE at Rabaul and start laying a carpet of mines in PM harbor.

It will to difficult to prevent PM from being pounded if the Allies bring up the B17/B24 death star to Cooktown but you can cause problems when he decides to reinvade. Build up the little dot base next to Buna. It can go to a 6 or level 8 airbase(Iforget) and in conjunction with Lae and Buna, you have a nice little airfield complex that can control the sea in front of PM!

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Post #: 9

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 6:23:18 PM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
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From: Super secret hidden base
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IMO the point of holding PM is two fold. First, to deny the base to the Allies and keeping the 4Es away from Rabaul. Second, to control the southern edge of NG and the straits between NG and OZ.

If I were the Japanese player I would keep a strong garrison there with a lot of massed AA. Massed AA is your best bet against massed 4Es. You won't stop them but you can make it a lot more costly.

THinking about PM a little differently it is not hard to see how it could be a blessing if the allies bomb it with massed 4Es routinely. If bombs are falling there then they aren't falling on other more important resources. Present the allies with few targets of interest.

I would keep only enough fighters and TB there to threaten allied shipping in the area, not try to repulse an invasion.

I would also build up Gili Gili, Lae and one other base in southern NG to counter any allied invasions. You can keep your planes massed at Rabaul and move them forward should an invasion occur.

You also need to pack PM with supplies. When the allied player get strong enough PM will become essentially an isolated island, as the Allied player controls the Coral sea.

Eventually PM will fall, but you can make it a hugely expensive and time consuming operation and minimize the losses to Japan in terms of planes and ships.

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Post #: 10

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 8:34:44 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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As an Allied player, I look at PM as an "unsinkable CV."

If allowed to remain in my hands I will start a war of attrition with the Japanese player and win. Plus, it is a stepping stone to move up into NG and beyond.
If I were a Japanese player and using standard map, both PM and Gili Gili would be used to close down the Coral Sea area for some time and slow down the Allied steam roller of '43.

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RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 8:43:34 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

If I were the Japanese player I would keep a strong garrison there with a lot of massed AA. Massed AA is your best bet against massed 4Es. You won't stop them but you can make it a lot more costly.

with current engine Jap player with massed AA will shot only few more 4E. Not worth to risk AA units in such isolated base...IMO better solution is strong garnison and lvl 9 fort... if you want to delay Allies...

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Post #: 12

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/6/2006 9:20:22 PM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

If I were the Japanese player I would keep a strong garrison there with a lot of massed AA. Massed AA is your best bet against massed 4Es. You won't stop them but you can make it a lot more costly.

with current engine Jap player with massed AA will shot only few more 4E. Not worth to risk AA units in such isolated base...IMO better solution is strong garnison and lvl 9 fort... if you want to delay Allies...

On second thought, considering the isolation of the base, Pauk may be right.

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Post #: 13

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/8/2006 7:58:54 PM

esteban

Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
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Now that you have PM, put some engineers there and start digging. Build up the base a bit (its a 25 point IHN VP base in scenario 15, so one point of airfield upgrade = 50 VP) and build fortifications). Also build up Lae to a size 4-5 AF, and build up Dobudura to at least a size 4 airfield (that's the dot base right below Buna that was mentioned previously). If you have time and men, build up Buna, Gili Gili and Finschafen and Salamua. At the very least, garrison and fortify Gili Gili, without building up the base much. There are a lot of extra engineer units with the Kwantung Army in Manchuria that you can use, and they don't cost a lot of PP to free up, but those also have to be spread across the many other bases you will want to build up in the SRA, North Oz and the Pacific Islands.

Dobudura is actually the key to defending Eastern/Southern New Guinea from the Allies. The base there can only be reached at extended B-17/B-24 range from Australia (extra op losses for the Allies, plus extra flak and fighter kills from damaged bombers that crash due to increased op losses against damaged bombers returning to Oz, plus reduced bombloads dropped on your key airfield) Also, Dobudura is very hard to reach with bombardment TFs until the Allied player can secure and build up Gili Gili. PM should be kept as an "optional" main base in case the Allied player goes all out to close down Dobudura. Fly your bombers out of PM if the Allies close down Dobudura.

Oh, and those flak guns that you don't want to concentrate and PM? Put a few of them at Dobudura (and Buna if you get enough men to build that up to a size 4 AF).

(in reply to niceguy2005)

Post #: 14

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/8/2006 8:43:40 PM

Nikademus

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From: Alien spacecraft
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Basically what Mynok said.....In real life I don't think the Japanese themselves knew for sure what do to with PM once they had it. (there was vague talk about using it as a platform to launch future attacks on Oz) Gamewise, by taking it you basically make PM the 4E target vs more important targets such as Rabaul, Shortlands etc. Dig in, build the base up to Max to minimize Malaria impacts and hunker down. (I used to advocate not building up to deny the Allies an easy airbase but the reality is they have plenty of ENG's to do the job)

With enough fighters you can slaughter the 4E attacks until P-38's deploy enmasse. Once they are available you might as well withdrawl the fighters because one big P38/4E raid @ 6000 feet and you'll get diminishing returns as damaged fighters are destroyed wholesale on the ground. Keep enough AV there to discourage an invasion. Your opponent will probably choose one of the unoccupied smaller island bases that can be built to level 4 in the end.

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Post #: 15

RE: I took it!! ... now what? - 7/8/2006 11:19:14 PM

bilbow

Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

The only value of PM is the denying of it to the Allies. It is a perfect 4E bomber base from which to destroy your SE Pacific holdings, especially Rabaul.

By denying it to the allies you can make it difficult and perhaps expensive to use the sea lane to Darwin. I think the Allies would have to take PM back before contemplating a drive north from Darwin. Most of that sea lane is outside Allied LBA range so carriers would be needed to keep the Betties off your transport TFs. That IMO is the reason the Jap goes for PM.

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Post #: 16

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> I took it!! ... now what?

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