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Speed rating using real players

 
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Speed rating using real players - 8/7/2007 11:22:30 PM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		In my current association (now using 1.64, started with CE1, real players, early imprt), I have very low stolen base numbers, and speed ratings across the board are very low, to me. In some cases, in fact, it seems pretty random--Tim Raines imported at 34 speed, for example, Gary Pettis imported in the forties (using 1-100 scale). Has this happened to anyone else? This is the only rating that I've ever questioned in PS. I know there's an x-factor but it seems especially pronounced in regards to speed.
Post #: 1
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/7/2007 11:51:09 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		This is from an across-the-board season import? Who are the highest-rated runners?

Look, after importing the 1947 season, Jackie Robinson was rated a 75 in speed. The highest rating for that year was Duke Snider, with an 80. Remember, this rating affects not only stolen bases but the ability to advance on a base hit and scoring runs.

The obvious conclusion is that the Duke had the capability of being a league-leading base stealer, had he been managed to do so. I get the impression that Duke was a conservative player, and relied on his bat rather than his legs. In Pure Sim, though, you can make him more aggressive on the bases if you so choose.

(in reply to 33sherman)
Post #: 2
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/7/2007 11:53:42 PM   
Frozen Stiffer


Posts: 1059
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Also remember sherman that the game looks at speed across the entire league. While an 80 is less than a 95, if the highest rating is an 80, then that guy is, relatively speaking, a bullet. Seeing low numbers overall should not be the only deciding factor that everyone is "slow". Perhaps they just have not encountered anything that is "wicked fast".

One of my personal favorite sayings is "You're only as good as your competition".


_____________________________

"It ain't braggin' if you can do it."

-Hall of Fame pitcher Jerome 'Dizzy' Dean

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 3
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 12:07:29 AM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		I do understand that it's relative, it's just that's it's extremely rare in this particular associtaion, which started in 1903. Rogers Hornsby is the all-time SB leader with a little over 600 SBs, and Joe Morgan is the only one even close to him. I'll have some more ratings when I get home from work, but even Lou Brock did not have a speed rating high enough to be much of a threat on the bases. I'll check Rickey Henderson's rating, too, I don't think it's above 50.

From what you guys are saying, it sounds like it's not happening in your assocations. I barely have anyone above 50 or 60 in the entire league most years.

(in reply to Frozen Stiffer)
Post #: 4
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 12:20:43 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		33sherman, you are importing greatest players from all eras using the sandbox mode, is that correct?

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 8/8/2007 12:21:36 AM >

(in reply to 33sherman)
Post #: 5
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 12:23:02 AM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

33sherman, you are importing greatest players using the sandbox mode, is that correct?


Actually, no. It's a historic career, 'classic' mode, I'm pretty sure. So the players are playing more or less against the talent pool from that particular year.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 6
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 12:28:40 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		OK, so you've fast-simmed through some 80 years then? At that rate, I'd expect some anomalies to happen. Babe Ruth would've remained a pitcher, if I understand you correctly.

(in reply to 33sherman)
Post #: 7
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 12:36:01 AM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

OK, so you've fast-simmed through some 80 years then? At that rate, I'd expect some anomalies to happen. Babe Ruth would've remained a pitcher, if I understand you correctly.


No, I've played through every season. Not every game, but no autoplay simmimg. Babe Ruth actually imports as a hitter now, using the default Lahman database. Anomalies are one thing, I'm saying that in 80 years there are very few speedy players, and very few stolen bases overall. Runners are thrown out trying to advance a high perentage of the time because while arm strength is imported normally, i.e. there are many players with arm ratings above 50, and even 80 and 90, there are few players with speed ratings above 50, and almost none in the 80+ range (and this is consistent over the course of 80 years--Hornsby had a speed rating in the seventies for most of his career and hit for a high average, so he is the all-time stolen base king). I would say the average speed for players in the association is 25-35. I'll check back in with more numbers later on. I'm thinking it may have something to do with it being a long career which his passed through several different builds of the game.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 8
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 12:47:00 AM   
Frozen Stiffer


Posts: 1059
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		My apologies in advance if I am misreading your post, but are you saying that you've GBG managed 80 seasons worth?

_____________________________

"It ain't braggin' if you can do it."

-Hall of Fame pitcher Jerome 'Dizzy' Dean

(in reply to 33sherman)
Post #: 9
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 1:01:59 AM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frozen Stiffer

My apologies in advance if I am misreading your post, but are you saying that you've GBG managed 80 seasons worth?


No, not every game--simmed by week or months in a lot of seasons, but not using unassisted autoplay or whatever it's called.

(in reply to Frozen Stiffer)
Post #: 10
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 1:22:17 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		OK, now I see (I hope). This long-term association has progressed through several builds of the game. So, as time passes, corrections made by successive patches are only seen after a year or so?

The original ratings are not gonna be dramatically affected. The patches upgrade associations, but the original ratings stay intact. This must be kept in mind.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 8/8/2007 1:23:56 AM >

(in reply to 33sherman)
Post #: 11
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 4:47:24 AM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		Okay, now I have the game in front of me....the almanac doesn't speed ratings year-by-year, but for instance Lou Brock played from 1958-1973 and finished with 0 career stolen bases. I don't remember exactly but I think his speed rating was in the 20s.

In 1986, the top 25% of players, sorted by speed, represents a range from 33-86. Meaning 75% of the players have speed ratings of 1-33. Some of the imports aren't bad--Rickey Henderson a 64, Garry Templeton a 61, Willie Wilson a 76. Then again Brett Butler is a 37.

I'd be curious to see if anyone else has experienced this...I will definitely be paying attention to speed ratings in the next career.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 12
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 7:44:06 AM   
Lefty

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: East Islip, NY
Status: offline 		KG Erwin said:

"after importing the 1947 season, Jackie Robinson was rated a 75 in speed. The highest rating for that year was Duke Snider, with an 80. Remember, this rating affects not only stolen bases but the ability to advance on a base hit and scoring runs."

Interesting.  I also started an association with the 1947 season.  Jackie was rated a 74 in speed and Snider was a 79.

Hmmm.....

(in reply to 33sherman)
Post #: 13
RE: Speed rating using real players - 8/8/2007 8:57:28 AM   
akcranker


Posts: 477
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know if I still have the association on my harddrive anymore but I have also seen this and thought it to be very strange that so many players were rated so low in speed.

I've also had an association where alot of relief pitchers didn't have an endurance above 12. Made it really hard to keep them in the game very long. I had one team where all my reliever's had an endurance of 12.

(in reply to Lefty)
Post #: 14
RE: Speed rating using real players - 6/23/2008 6:15:10 PM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		Playing a new association now with the latest patch, early-import lahman...still very odd speed rating imports, Lou Brock and Maury Wills importing at a 37 speed rating. Anyone else still seeing this?

(in reply to akcranker)
Post #: 15
RE: Speed rating using real players - 6/25/2008 12:06:53 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 33sherman

Playing a new association now with the latest patch, early-import lahman...still very odd speed rating imports, Lou Brock and Maury Wills importing at a 37 speed rating. Anyone else still seeing this?


If Brock and Wills imported early, then I can see this happening. I gave up on early entry when I had guys like Robinson and Ashburn arriving a year or three early, so their ratings were adjusted downward. You might wanna reconsider using that feature.


< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 6/25/2008 12:07:47 AM >

(in reply to 33sherman)
Post #: 16
RE: Speed rating using real players - 6/25/2008 12:15:46 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lefty

KG Erwin said:

"after importing the 1947 season, Jackie Robinson was rated a 75 in speed. The highest rating for that year was Duke Snider, with an 80. Remember, this rating affects not only stolen bases but the ability to advance on a base hit and scoring runs."

Interesting.  I also started an association with the 1947 season.  Jackie was rated a 74 in speed and Snider was a 79.

Hmmm.....


Another thing to note is that ratings at import can be different even in the same historical year. I've restarted (from scratch) 1947 several times, and there are differences each time. In my current association, Jackie imported with a speed rating of 79. Snider is 83. Duke also has the highest speed rating in the majors.

(in reply to Lefty)
Post #: 17
RE: Speed rating using real players - 6/25/2008 1:01:54 AM   
DonBraswell


Posts: 384
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Millbrook, Alabama
Status: offline 		KG,
Thats interresting. I have never got Jackie Robinson to import with a speed rating higher than a 53. I understand what you are saying about early entry, but it needs to work correctly. I don't think Shaun will change it now, but it should be fixed. I play with and with out early entry. I want it to work. ( The extra players should cut down on the scrubs, but it doesn't really help as is ) I think it is why many of my players import with 5 ratings and almost never improve...... Gil Hodges, Hank Sauer etc. And it is both hitters and pitchers, even though pitchers never seem to import with as low ratings as the hitters do.
Don

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 18
RE: Speed rating using real players - 6/25/2008 7:35:03 PM   
33sherman

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DonBraswell

KG,
Thats interresting. I have never got Jackie Robinson to import with a speed rating higher than a 53. I understand what you are saying about early entry, but it needs to work correctly. I don't think Shaun will change it now, but it should be fixed. I play with and with out early entry. I want it to work. ( The extra players should cut down on the scrubs, but it doesn't really help as is ) I think it is why many of my players import with 5 ratings and almost never improve...... Gil Hodges, Hank Sauer etc. And it is both hitters and pitchers, even though pitchers never seem to import with as low ratings as the hitters do.
Don


I've had good luck developing players who import with lower ratings (like Gil Hodges, though he never lives up to his real-life stats) except in the case of speed, which seems to be more of a fixed rating which only goes down from the imported rating as the player gets older.

(in reply to DonBraswell)
Post #: 19
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