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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat - Cross of Iron >> First IMpressions, Disappointed

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First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/16/2007 9:33:12 PM

ibncalb

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/16/2007
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did i spell disappointed right?

i played all the CC games plenty in the past, just got back from a long time in the wilds of South Africa with no computer games and only a few board games (twilight imperium, ASL, POG) for company.

was so excited to see CC rereleased, but after playing it all day, i'm really finding i'm not interested. i feel frustrated. i'm playing the basic game, campaign, and i'm getting mad.

it seems that all the killing by me is done by AT guns and HMG's. my infantry simply hides then gets killed by an ISU 152.

i'm setting up in good mutually supporting positions but failing everytime. i'm winning the scenarios but not having fun. i want an infantry game. what can i do? am *i* doing something wrong?

b e n

not happy with his veteran pionere being killed time after time by one shell, or his command tiger being killed instantly by artillery....

p.s as back ground, i've played ASL for years and years and am current;y playing HoI 2, TOAW and Civ3.

Post #: 1

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/16/2007 10:15:11 PM

Beeblebrox

Posts: 200
Joined: 10/27/2006
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Things get killed, and a 152mm shell can take out a whole Team.

CC3 has always been a Heavy Weapons heavy game, and CoI will still tend to be this way as well.

Also, you are describing good tactics. You kill tanks with AT and infantry with HMG's (and Tanks). I am sure there will be those who will find CoI no challange (Single Player) at all.

There is a 'Real Infantry' Mod in the pipeline which will be released imminently as a Plugin for CoI. That makes severe adjustments to the Weapons balance, and keeps Armour very restricted, so you get a more Infantry based challange.

(in reply to ibncalb)

Post #: 2

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/16/2007 10:44:24 PM

ibncalb

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Joined: 2/16/2007
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thanks again b!

it still feels weird tho, just to buy AT and mg's and mtrs for fun...

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Post #: 3

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/16/2007 10:52:40 PM

LitFuel

Posts: 272
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Syracuse, NY
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I think a CC2 re-release would be a good follow up/change of pace to CC3/COI for those who want more an emphasis on infantry....hnt hint

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Post #: 4

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/16/2007 11:15:39 PM

Shaun Wallace

Posts: 819
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From: UK
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quote:

thanks again b!

it still feels weird tho, just to buy AT and mg's and mtrs for fun...

I would imagine that at various times both sides in WW2 felt a bit like "Just having AT and mg's and mtrs" is pointless. It is always going to be that any developer gets things in the opinion of the gamer either too far one way or too far the other. I personally much prefer infantry battles and light armour and infantry battles, purely as thats more fin "in my opinion". Other players prefer tank heavy games, its all personal preference. We are aiming with the ultimate release of CC6 and CC7 to change many of issues that are classically seen as problems with some of the previous versions of CC.

The beauty of CC: CoI is that all of the mods (And there are literally hundreds and hundreds with more being produced all the time) out there and the ease of installing them now, makes a whole new world of CC available to many more people. We tried to add in as much as possible in this release so that online play, mods etc, all areas where CC3 excels would be easily accesible to all of you.

I suppose the great thing with CC, is that if you don't like the way the game runs you can easily change things or if you look, probably find that somome may have even done exactly what you are looking for already. CC has a huge modding fan base and probably less than 1% of all who have played CC have ever seen, installed or used a mod. This is as I have said one of the things we are trying to bring to a far wider community. The CC communnity is also very mature and you are almost sure to find somone willing to help you change or mod things (massive amount of tools out there

) or whom you can ask advice from.

I have played CC a lot and CC: CoI has many subtle changes and huge amount of content. Once you have exhausted AI and Mod play, you can play H2H and thats ojne of the real challenges. I have played some of the truly great CC players (Cases & TH as well as unranked, Gunner, Marcks, JJ_Van, GS_Guderian and many others) and playing another human being is always going to be a kick, and with the mods you can play almost any part of WW2 (and beyond) online, with very different weapaons, terrain etc.

Another part of getting these games out is that a whole generation of younger gamers will never have played them and would never have got a chance to. CC can only be classicaly top down or isometric (think AoE view). How many new games are being developed like this with this kind of view? To me its inherent within CC that this is retained while other areas of CC are hugely overhauled. We are working on CC the next generation and in the meantime, we hope that you have fun with getting to know CC either again and revamped or for the first time ;)

Cheers

Sulla

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(in reply to ibncalb)

Post #: 5

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 1:15:33 AM

Tactics

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From: USA
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Please post when Real Infantry is ready, and or make the available mods visiable to everyone.

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Post #: 6

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 1:45:25 AM

Motomouse

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/1/2005
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I also played the classic cc (I think CC2 CC3 CC4) quite alot. I had big fun against the ai (I liked especially the cc2 campaign style, it had got a very tense feeling), but only limited mp experience (dial up ...). Perhaps thats gona change now.

I really like to set up killing zones with hmg and at guns, then one trys to outmaneuvre the opponent with mobile recon squads and armor. I got quite a beating during my first try on the new campaign (wrong mix, no at power, bad positions, wrong plan, ...). Then I was a little bit disapointed, because i camped with a heavy hmg/at mix and the ai really made no attempts to dug me out (a little bit tedious). But now using mobile forces to stir up the pot and lure them to the killing zones, I experienced quite a few tense battles on the second map of the new campaign already.

I was a little hesitant to invest in CoI, but i am glad i made the step. Looking forward to quite some ai/mp action with CoI and its mods. Cant await the further developments up the road with the cc series (I had high hopes for the cc 3d successors, but they all did not succeed, so back to 2d cc! I still think its possible to go for a successfull 3d cc, but it think you have to stick to a zoomed out top down view with very crisp, detailed graphics. (Time and improved computing power will tell)

Regards
Motomouse

(in reply to Tactics)

Post #: 7

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 2:08:48 AM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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As a non-veteran but an experienced gamer, I'm finding that CoI forces the player into thinking in "real-world" terms, which is good.

In this game, sound tactics and good leadership matter a great deal, so "gamey" players might be disappointed.

For guys who just get into blowing up stuff, facing the issues that real-life commanders have to deal with (short of actually being shot at), is a valuable lesson.

It's also useful for younger folks who might be considering a military career.

(in reply to Motomouse)

Post #: 8

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 8:33:44 AM

Bradley62

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Yeah, there are still some weaknesses there. But there are so many strengths CC offers. I came late to CC in '00, for it was the chief reason I wanted a PC to begin with. It was the first computer wargame I'd ever played and it far surpassed all expectations. I have yet to find ANY game, not just a wargame , that matched the rush, sweaty palms, and tension of H2H play CC offered. Never have I gotten more for my $$ than I did with CC3. Western Front,RR,Real Inf, some I cannot remember there were so many fantastic Mods to choose from. And H2H is just another aspect that makes it a top 3 wargame of all time IMO.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 9

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 6:51:07 PM

Llyranor

Posts: 217
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From: Montreal, Canada
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As an 'average' wargamer, can I realistically expect to be able to go through the campaigns using a balanced team (or more infantry-focused), rather than investing too much on tanks and the like?

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Post #: 10

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 7:17:44 PM

Beeblebrox

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As an 'average' wargamer myself, your best strategy overall is to go for the biggest bestest weaponry set you can muster, and that goes for Tanks. I think this is a bit of an inadequacy in CC3/CoI, but that is only my personal preference. Lots of people like Tank and heavy weapon fests!

If you are playing as Germans from the end of '43 onwards, your infantry start to get powerful tank stoppers, so as Germans, you have more prospect of winning using less armour and more infantry.

If you are Russians, you don't have this advantage, and without AT and Tanks, you are going to find it quite hard! (Well I do...).

There is a Real Infantry Mod coming imminently that adjusts game play to reduce heavy weapons, and give a more infantry based game.

However, I think that with CoI, if you can use good tactics, you can probably do better with less heavy weapons than you could in CC3. When we talk about the effects the AI has on things like morale, it applies to both sides! I found my haul of Russian prisoners significantly bigger on the whole than I remember with CC3.

An example is that if you were to overrun an isolate denemy team with a tank, it is more likely to surrender as opposed to try and fight it out, and die to the last man.

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Post #: 11

RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 7:33:38 PM

Uncle_Joe

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Part of the 'problem' is that many of the maps are so wide open. Infantry will likely take a very secondary role to support weapons and AFVs under those conditions. Play on some of the more built up maps and the tanks and AT guns suddenly feel a whole lot less useful....

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RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 10:04:39 PM

Llyranor

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From: Montreal, Canada
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And I also take it that the other CC's are less tank-oriented, yes?

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RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 10:15:40 PM

Uncle_Joe

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CC2 was definately less tank-oriented (since it dealt with Market-Garden). CC4, I seem to recall still being pretty vehicle-centric. I never really played CC5 so I cant comment there.

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RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/17/2007 11:26:48 PM

Prince of Eckm�hl

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The West Front mod for CC3 has a lot of God-forsaken terrain to fight in, hedgerows and stuff, and not always tank friendly.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/18/2007 1:37:39 AM

Beeblebrox

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quote:

Play on some of the more built up maps and the tanks and AT guns suddenly feel a whole lot less useful....

Good point!

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RE: First IMpressions, Disappointed - 2/18/2007 1:44:53 AM

ibncalb

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Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

Part of the 'problem' is that many of the maps are so wide open. Infantry will likely take a very secondary role to support weapons and AFVs under those conditions. Play on some of the more built up maps and the tanks and AT guns suddenly feel a whole lot less useful....

that is indeed a fantastic point and one i have missed. i tried earlier putting together a custom scen of inf vs inf in volgograd and it played a lot better than facing t34's over a grainfield.

thanks for the feedback guys

b e n

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)

Post #: 17