towed gun movement

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> towed gun movement

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towed gun movement - 9/26/2000 4:45:00 AM

McGib

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From: Ontario Canada
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This I do not understand. How is it that a 150mm FH has a movement of 1? I can understand 25mm or 37mm sized guns having movement but how the heck do ya figure moving large arty pieces?? A tank cant back up a hex cause its 50m and thats to far then please how is a 150mm howitzer able to move 50m???????? Either we re-look at reverse movement for vehicles or large gun movement has to go! ------------------ McGib Ready Aye Ready

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- 9/26/2000 2:51:00 PM

Reg

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From: NSW, Australia
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quote:

Originally posted by McGib: This I do not understand. How is it that a 150mm FH has a movement of 1? I can understand 25mm or 37mm sized guns having movement but how the heck do ya figure moving large arty pieces?? A tank cant back up a hex cause its 50m and thats to far then please how is a 150mm howitzer able to move 50m???????? Either we re-look at reverse movement for vehicles or large gun movement has to go!

If I remember previous posts correctly,the reason heavy guns were given movement was not to create self propelled artillery but to give you flexibility in deployment. Some terrain types (such as stone walls etc) can immobilise the towing vehicle, so the only alternative was to drop off the guns in the open, right next to the cover you would dearly like to take advantage of. At least with a small movement allowance you can prolong the guns into adjacent cover without wrecking your transport. (I suppose this can be justified by saying that the guns were dropped off at the very edge of the hex.) Hope this help explain the logic of the decision (which was at the request of the players by the way). Reg.

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Post #: 2

- 9/26/2000 3:08:00 PM

Fredde

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Even large pieces of artillery are movable by hand, although extremely slow of course. Had some physical exercise in the army moving around a 10.5 cm FH, both training muscles and teamwork

. Look at Dien Bien Phu.. heavy guns transported almost by hand-craft only up in their positions.

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. M�kel� about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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Post #: 3

- 9/26/2000 5:14:00 PM

headhunter

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This movement allowance of one hex should be kept. But if forced into retreat a gun should be left behind by its crew and not moved along.

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- 9/26/2000 7:37:00 PM

Voriax

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From: Finland
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McGib, which howitzer in which oob? It looks like guns up to and including 122mm caliber have speed of 1 and bigger guns have zero speed. This your gun might just be a typo. Of course speed of 1 doesn't really make them mobile as moving 1 hex tends to consume more moving points, but it allows them to flee (and grab their gun with them)

Voriax

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- 9/26/2000 8:19:00 PM

Paul Vebber

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The convention used is weight 100 wepoans get 1 MP minimum, weight 200 are immobile, without transport. Routed crews should be abandoning their guns to flee, with the exception of Lt mortars.

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- 9/27/2000 12:49:00 AM

McGib

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The point of my post is that if a crew can manhandle a 105 50m in a turn then a tank can reverse 50m. I find it hard to rationalize one and not the other. ------------------ McGib Ready Aye Ready

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- 9/27/2000 1:06:00 AM

Voriax

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quote:

Originally posted by McGib: The point of my post is that if a crew can manhandle a 105 50m in a turn then a tank can reverse 50m. I find it hard to rationalize one and not the other.

Good point. The reverse is something I've wished from day 1 of the SP

However, gun movement can be achieved by adding 1 number to the oob file, getting tank to reverse needs a bit more. But perhaps one day.... Voriax

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Post #: 8

- 9/27/2000 1:54:00 AM

Paul Vebber

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On the nose Voriax :-) And while reverse may be fun in the game- there is still serious question whether real live tanks did it with the frequency the players would use it...even if we had unlimited time development resources...And then there is how to program the AI to know what it means and how to do it and not abuse it... [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited September 26, 2000).]

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- 9/27/2000 4:59:00 AM

Dave_R

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From: England
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quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: On the nose Voriax :-) And while reverse may be fun in the game- there is still serious question whether real live tanks did it with the frequency the players would use it...even if we had unlimited time development resources...And then there is how to program the AI to know what it means and how to do it and not abuse it... [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited September 26, 2000).]

Paul, I don't know about WW2 but when I was in armour in the early 80's a short, rapid reverse was a taught and accepeted tactic. The benifit is not only keeping your best armour pointing at a shooter, but the sudden change of direction, will, hopefully also throw the shooter off target for a second shot. It also stops sudden hull direction changes, so gives your gunner a stronger possibility of a snap return shot! Yes not being able to reverse is one gripe that I have with SPWaW, but I also realise that it would probably be a majot task to try and incorperate it now. But if you have plans for your own, new game for the future, then I would suggest that you consider it, along with a huge movement penalty, and an increase in breakdown penalty too.

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- 9/27/2000 8:54:00 AM

McGib

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Personnaly Paul I'm not asking much ref reverse movement, a hex maybe 2 would be fine with me, with a chance for breakdown depending on terrain. If the AI can only back up a hex at a time I cant see how it could abuse the it, aside from using it when it did not need to and immobolize itself time and again. ------------------ McGib Ready Aye Ready

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