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Do you guys know the truth about AFV?

 
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Do you guys know the truth about AFV? - 3/18/2002 5:26:31 PM   
Saviola

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Hong Kong SAR
Status: offline 		Do you know if it is the truth in history that an AFV can be simply be taken out by a single shot?(In SPWaW, I've got my tiger destroyed by a single shot from a KV-1)
I don't know anything about the truth, since when I am playing Sudden Strike Forever( you probably know this?) A StrumTiger can take up 10+ shots from a KV-1 before it burns...
Would anyone kindly tell me what had really happened out there?thx~
Post #: 1
- 3/18/2002 6:00:53 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		Is this a joke or what ;) ?

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Post #: 2
- 3/18/2002 7:03:48 PM   
ZoomBoy27


Posts: 75
Joined: 8/13/2001
From: Vancouver BC Canada
Status: offline 		I don't remember what gun the KV-1 had. One sec while I check the Russian Encyclopedia of AFV in SPWAW. It was a 76mm gun and by 1943 arrived the KV-1 was insufficient to crack open a Tiger head on. A KV-1 firing from the rear should be able to do enough damage to immobilize the Tiger at minimum and be able to brew it up. From the front it's a whole different story.

But 3 or 4 hits from a KV-1 that don't brew up the Tiger has the possibilty of shaking up the crew enough that they might abandon their Tiger. Unless the Tiger crew is too busy destroying the KV-1.

Don't worry; I WILL be corrected.

ZoomBoy
I've collected and created a few more interesting IL2 co-ops @ Mission Page
Developing a iso-tile 2D RPG at Check out my web-site

(in reply to Saviola)
Post #: 3
- 3/18/2002 7:06:12 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		God I hope its a joke.

I also hope if this person is serious, they stop confusing themselves with games meant for real wargamers.

Asking if a tank can be taken out with one shot (and not even establishing any parameters) is like asking us if we can get lucky in Bangkok on a friday night after payday.

Lets see Tiger vs Sherman (any damn sherman) first shot kill, why not, they were called ronsons for a reason.

T-34 vs Pz III (any version) first shot kill, again why not.

Stuart Mk5 vs Mouse first shot kill, ok maybe that is stretching it a bit.

The idea a KV must needs multiple hits vs a Tiger, well that sounds ludicrous to any regular armour fan.

Even the Mighty Hood was not immune to a first round kill.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
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Post #: 4
- 3/18/2002 7:13:58 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Now if the Tiger was hull down behind a smoke screen during a fierce battle, being fired at by a KV that was moving across the Tigers front while traversing its turret after having moved fairly fast over rough ground through an artillery barrage both his and the enemies after having taken infantry fire moments before....


Yes it might take more than one shot at that Tiger to do anything.

Just because the KV goes bang and even if the round hits the Tiger, its not that simple.

But **** happens.

A 76 mm anti tank round is always a 76 mm anti tank round. And if it hits a Tiger correctly, it will kill the Tiger.

I can kill a Tiger with a bucket of fuel and a zippo. That does make me inherently dangerous though.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 5
- 3/18/2002 8:02:55 PM   
screamer

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: The Netherlands,
Status: offline 		lol, i found it strange that my sturmtiger was destroyed by one frontal hit fired by a shermanV at the hex next to my sturmtiger

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poep

(in reply to Saviola)
Post #: 6
- 3/18/2002 10:52:23 PM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]

Asking if a tank can be taken out with one shot (and not even establishing any parameters) is like asking us if we can get lucky in Bangkok on a friday night after payday.
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL :D

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Jim NSB

(in reply to Saviola)
Post #: 7
- 3/18/2002 11:28:03 PM   
Mojo

 

Posts: 915
Joined: 2/6/2002
From: Portland, Oregon USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]... I can kill a Tiger with a bucket of fuel and a zippo. That does make me inherently dangerous though. [/B][/QUOTE]

LOL. I'll second that Les!

(in reply to Saviola)
Post #: 8
- 3/19/2002 12:24:05 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		The Germans knowing the Allied repair tendacies began to use the tatic of putting several shells into American and British tanks hoping they wouldnt get them back into the field.

[QUOTE]lol, i found it strange that my sturmtiger was destroyed by one frontal hit fired by a shermanV at the hex next to my sturmtiger[/QUOTE]
The allies were adept at using tugnston ammo that could penetrate almost anything short of WW1 dreadnaught armor. is that simulated into spwaw? I forgot

Ill state the obvious here when I say Sudden Strike is as relistic about war as Rambo is about Vietnam.

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Post #: 9
- 3/19/2002 2:37:45 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Oh my... *slight* redundancy warning here, folks.. :rolleyes:

Saviola; If you're not a troll, and is really curious about this, there's a few things to keep in mind:

SP:WAW is [I]serious[/I] . By that I mean that all things possible within the range of the game engine is taken into consideration for calculating damage. These are based on facts, data, research, you name it to an extent that boggles the mind. :eek:

Have a look at Paul Webber's reply to [URL=http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16720]Warhorse's ammo penetration post[/URL] ... kinda gives you an idea.

It's meant to be fun, but accurate to the furthest extent possible.
You can kill a Tiger (or Sturmtiger, or a goddamn Battleship or whatever) with a single shot from a KV-1, but it's not [I]likely[/I] .
It's not linear at all. This time it took one shot. Next time it may take 15. You can never know, since you can't keep track of all things that determines the shot success. But you can [I]estimate[/I] your chance of success. That's the fun.

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Post #: 10
- 3/19/2002 1:44:47 PM   
oldrocky


Posts: 42
Joined: 11/30/2000
Status: offline 		" Vulnerable location hit"

(in reply to Saviola)
Post #: 11
Thanks... - 3/19/2002 7:18:42 PM   
Saviola

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Hong Kong SAR
Status: offline 		Thank you for you replies, but I am really so ignorant that I don't know about the fact. Thanks for solving my problem.

(in reply to Saviola)
Post #: 12
- 3/19/2002 11:47:20 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
The allies were adept at using tugnston ammo that could penetrate almost anything short of WW1 dreadnaught armor. is that simulated into spwaw? I forgot
[/QUOTE]

Well, you are most likely thinking about APCR ammo (Armour Piercing Composite Rigid'. In this type of ammo there is a relatively small tungsten core surrounded by a lighter alloy that 'creates' the ballistic shape. These were in no means anything unusual and afaik allies were by no means any more adept in using them. perhaps even opposite..like giving such ammo to TD units only and not to normal tanks. Of course Germans had practically none tungsten after 1943 so the ammo stocks for APCR ran out.

Another variant was HVAP ammo, also I think US used this name? High Velocity Armour Piercing. Such ammo could also be arrow shaped. Unless I'm badly demented Brits had sabot ammo where the tungsten penetrator separates from the sabot that carries the penetrator through the bore, but I recall that this round was somewhat unreliable and inaccurate. I'm sure someone corrects me if (when?) I'm wrong

:rolleyes:

Voriax

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Post #: 13
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