Pandering and Arty delays

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Pandering and Arty delays

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Pandering and Arty delays - 4/7/2002 7:33:05 PM

AmmoSgt

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline

Just started a generated campaign as the Germans against the Russians ..June 41 ..I don't normally play as the Germans ..Thought I would give it a try ..
Noticed that the Germans have .02 delay 81mm and 50mm mortars and .05 delay offboard and wulfrhaum units ..right from the start .. not all of them, I will admit , but about 1/3 of the arty was that fast .. and this was the first game in the campaign , with default experience numbers ...
I don't think handicaping the Germans with fantasy artillery response times will help Matrix earn a reputation as a producer of serious wargames .. I know most folks on the forums have seen the discusions about the historical factors that go into the various Nations Arty response times ... I know that there are limits on how accurately they can be portrayed .. and I know that the AI can use the help , any help, it can get .. But what is a serious and skilled player to do if they want to play as the Germans ... Punching up the German Arty response time to the totally fictious , near US and British speeds, makes playing as the Germans way to easy and no challenge at all ..
This game has degenerated into a pandering contest.. Experience ratings that are obviously bogus so as not to offend any countries that might honestly deserve low ratings.. inflated FC ratings for the German infantry, usually a couple of points higher than any other country for similar units .. questionable padding of German ammo with extra Tungsten rounds .. and now some kinda half-assed parity with US and British Arty response times ... It's sad ... and I will not accomplish what folks want it to do .. at some point even the most avid German player will want to win an honest game , played with all the advantages and all the HANDICAPS the Germans actually had ... as it now stands if you can't get a decisve victory against the AI playing as the German you need to stick to checkers .
One can quibble with some of the armor and penetration values that have been increased for the Germans and decreased for the Russians in 7.0 .. But there is no historical basis for this latest pandering to the whiners that refuse to learn actual tactics and would rather whine for hours to get non-German units dumbed down and German units beefed up so they can beat the AI ... it's just flat out lame . I also noticed that the US , which is the only nation that had the communication assests and doctrine to justify single mortars, is still stuck with mulitiple mortars .. and now the Germans have single mortars allowing a battery to engage as many targets as tubes , which they couldn't do even on a good day with a tail wind .. while the US which routinely called single tube per target, can't. There is no historical reason for this .. it has to be the constant whining and begging to dumb down all the non-german nations so the germans can win a game and pretend they know tactics ..it is really really lame to have to win that way .

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Post #: 1

- 4/7/2002 7:50:59 PM

Svennemir

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Less of those things are intended than you think.:rolleyes:

(in reply to AmmoSgt)

Post #: 2

- 4/7/2002 8:17:42 PM

Goblin

Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline

If it bothers you that much, don't take an FO next time, then it won't be "way too easy and no challange at all".

Whats a serious player to to if he wants to play the Germans? If he thinks he is having too easy a time of it, he goes to the little screen called 'Preferences' and handicaps himself a little. Or a lot.

You were correct about the tirade and the whining alright... You went on a tirade and insulted most of this forum through generalizations and broad, sweeping statements. If no one will call you on it, I will. I even agree with some of what you said, but not how you said it.

Goblin:mad:

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Post #: 3

- 4/7/2002 9:52:50 PM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

Just a thought: is it possible those GE mortar units got suppressed by an enemy fire mission that arrived before they fired (0.0)? I'm sure you would have mentioned this, but I figured I'd ask 'just in case'...FWIW I agree with much of what you wrote.

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Post #: 4

- 4/8/2002 10:09:23 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

Nothing in the artillery delays was touched in 7.1.

As we've stated many times, if you want realistic artillery C2, then you'll have to wait for CL. I consider the pretty equal griping of "too-pro US" and "too pro-nazi" mean we have things about right. I say again "historicially" arty has been and remains broken. Redoing it from scratch is best done in a new game!

IF you had compared the 7.1 to previous versions you would see APCR is reduced all around.

The multiple mortars fo the US and Brits (and alot of other problems with mortars that supposedly were fixed, but weren't) will be fixed in an upcomming Mega campaign patch. (I ain;t fixin em anymore but the MC guys may tweak something they consider particularly needy).

(in reply to AmmoSgt)

Post #: 5

- 4/8/2002 10:38:11 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

AmmoSgt, you're welcome to play my games...

I usually play GE, and even with FO's all over the place, I seldom get faster response times than ~1.3 turns. Enough to make arty plotting a guesswork. :cool: Oh, and my force never seem to get any FuG 4's, or malfunctioning ones. "out of contact", anyone? :D

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