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Mid 1900's battle simmulation in TOAW

 
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Mid 1900's battle simmulation in TOAW - 9/16/2008 8:27:05 PM   
Singleton Mosby


Posts: 47
Joined: 9/11/2008
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So, I have never made a scenario for TOAW nor looked into enough of them yet. Next to that I am very new to TOAW.
But I am rather interested in making one on the complete American Civil War. But, before I put any effort in it at all I had some questions.

Is TOAW able to simmulate the large scale battles of the 1860's as in massed troops in one hex? A quick decisive battle and then a withdraw with troops being able to easily dissengage and be so fought out and demoralized they have to withdraw.

Like for example Gettysburg. On a 10km/ hex map the battle would take place in at most 3 hexes for each army. The Confederate army as an example in regimental scale will be 15 regiments to a division + 1 battery. Three of those divisions in each hex = rougly 50 units in each hex and 150 for the entire Army of Northern Virginia. Is this possible?
It would be awesome to play, grand in style like FITE but will I be able to make the mechanics work?

And of course, if it can be done. Is there anyone interested in joining in?
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RE: Mid 1900's battle simmulation in TOAW - 9/16/2008 9:34:27 PM   
noxious


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Joined: 6/13/2008
From: Montreal, Qc, Canuckistan
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Quite a few Civil War scenarios around (btw, you mean mid-1800s me thinks, not 1900 ;))
There is even a modified equipment file called 19th Century Engine that then allows you to play a bunch of CoW scenarios built for that engine.
Also at Rugged Defense, check out the scenario section, in pre-WW1->the American Civil War
Of possible interest to you, is the Other->America at war ->CSA-USA which are hypothetical 20th century Civil War 2 scenarios.

Hope this helps,
Cheers !


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Be Kind. Everyone is fighting a hard battle.

(in reply to Singleton Mosby)
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RE: Mid 1900's battle simmulation in TOAW - 9/16/2008 9:36:59 PM   
ColinWright

 

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It can be done -- and there are those who will argue that it can be done well.

I disagree. Briefly, TOAW fails in each of the following areas.

1. Inappropriate command and control/intelligence. In TOAW, you always know where all your own troops are.

2. Inappropriate supply. Supply is mostly a function of how good your communications to the rear are. It has little to do with the fertility or the resources of the country you are in. When battle didn't threaten, your average nineteenth century army would tend to disperse over the countryside so as to take advantage of food stores, etc. Your TOAW troops will want to gather along roads and rail lines.

3. Inappropriate combat dynamics. Spread out and surround -- and never, never concentrate in one stack. It's just the opposite of supply. Where nineteenth century armies would march to the sound of the guns and concentrate as densely as possible for that big battle, it will behoove TOAW-Lee at Gettysburg to hold that ridge with that first division and order everyone else to envelope the Union army. Of course, the Union army wouldn't obligingly mass 90,000 men along a five mile ridge, so no particular advantage would ensue -- but the resulting battle won't bear even a faint resemblance to Gettysburg.

4. Fantastic gaps between the scale of battles and the scale of theaters. TOAW puts it all one map -- and with the large armies and low combat densities of modern warfare, this works. The combat area of the Battle of Kursk occupies 10% or so of the total frontage of the Eastern Front. The battle area of Gettysburg covers about 2% of the total campaign distance from Harrisburg to Richmond -- and that's hardly the most extreme example. You can't satisfactorily get both the distances involved in strategic maneuver and the details of the actual combat onto the same map.

As I say, others will disagree -- and I will grant that there are workarounds and special situations that make it possible for TOAW to sometimes produce limited and partially satisfactory simulations of some pre-modern campaigns.

But you're working with the wrong engine. It'll be like trying to eat dinner with a screw driver and a pair of pliers. Possible, but...



< Message edited by ColinWright -- 9/16/2008 9:38:29 PM >


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I am not Charlie Hebdo

(in reply to Singleton Mosby)
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RE: Mid 1900's battle simmulation in TOAW - 9/16/2008 11:21:24 PM   
Singleton Mosby


Posts: 47
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline

quote:


But you're working with the wrong engine. It'll be like trying to eat dinner with a screw driver and a pair of pliers. Possible, but...


Well, then that's very clear to me. You answered all the questions I had very throughly. The battle of Gettysburg (still just an example) can still be represented but only on a 200 yards/ hex map. And then the battleground series are way better then anything I could ever make in TOAW.

Too bad but allas.

I will give those scenario's a try and see how they are able to bring the ACW to me. O and I keep mixing up 19th century and 1900's....stupid ;)

(in reply to ColinWright)
Post #: 4
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