Weather?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Weather?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Weather?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Weather? - 4/13/2002 9:26:34 PM

madflava13

Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline

How does weather work? Is there a graphical representation of the weather or do you have to click on individual hexes? Are they random, or does the weather follow patterns (ie fronts move logically across the map, etc.)?

Thanks in advance to whoever has time to answer this!

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

Post #: 1

- 4/13/2002 9:34:35 PM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline

Weather is "global" for the whole map. The states are

clear,
partly clouded,
overcast,
rainy,
thunderstorm

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 2

- 4/14/2002 10:45:08 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

None of the screenshots I have seen show the weather. Is it because the players have turned the clouds off (as in BTR), or is it because they are never graphically represented?

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 3

- 4/14/2002 8:00:38 PM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline

The Weatherforecast is given at the beginning of each turn. There are no clouds or other weather effects on the map if you mean that.

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 4

- 4/14/2002 11:18:00 PM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

This could explain why Iain's air units often fail to attack naval units when they are at sea... Either the planes are grounded due to bad weather or the convoys are hidden inside a storm. In either case, the player is sitting there, silently fuming - wondering why his planes don't attack.

Since we can't see the weather and therefore manually route our TFs in order to use weather fronts as a screen, can we issue an order for them to attempt to do so? That was one of my favorite tricks in Flattop as the Japanese - send my carriers towards Guadalcanal under the cover of a storm in order to pop out and surprise the US fleet from behind.

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 5

- 4/14/2002 11:34:54 PM

IChristie

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline

The game does inform you if your planes are grounded due to weather and it does tell you if they fly but fail to find their target (the chance of which is increased by bad weather at the target)

In the game I am playing I have these messages set to scroll very quickly and in a complicated turn it is not always possible to remember exactly what happened - especially since there are two impulses each turn.

So... it is entirely likely that the non-sorties were due to weather and I simply missed the notification.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 6

- 4/15/2002 1:15:13 AM

HMSWarspite

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Does the weather 'flow' logically from day to day, or is it random (do you get progressively poorer weather, then the storm, then clearer weather over several days)? Is there a forcast (can you prepare the run in to resupply a base knowing that the weather will be poor for a couple of days)?
We must be hassling you beta guys something awful - you will be able to reverse engineer the game with all the info we keep asking!

_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 7

weather - 4/15/2002 5:44:34 AM

fropa98

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/15/2002
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

As a professional meteorologist I feel I should interject something into actual weather conditions
in the region covered by UV. UV's scale is in an area of the world that will not see weather fronts
and some meteorological phenomena discussed here that occur in mid-latitudinal regions of the world. The scale of this game is in a tropical,
equatorial region whose weather does not change drastically from day to day and does not experience "seasons" to any strong degree. The far southern end of the map around New Caledonia and
Fiji are the only parts of the map far enough to
the south to ever experience tropical cyclones
and the time frame for these to occur would be
November to the end of April. The predominant weather feature for most of the map in UV would be
tropical airmass thunderstorms and thunderstorm
clusters occasionally induced by tropical lows.
Most precipitation in the Solomons comes from these isolated thunderstorms that occur as a result of the ITCZ. The time frame for the length of these thunderstorms is generally from 1 to 4 hours and these storms of course usually occur in the afternoon and early evening hours. Nocturnal thunderstorms do occur in this region but are not common. Tropical lows or waves are not uncommon in the Coral and Tasman seas and can generate very strong thunderstorms across eastern New Guinea and Queensland with very heavy rainfall amounts.

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 8

Weather system... - 4/17/2002 4:09:27 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

The weather system gives you a forecast each turn in a graphical pop-up. However, history will show that there were quite a few local meteorological surprises in this campaign. As such, there is no actual weather map or specific hex forecast that is available to the player during planning. Only the general forecast for the area is available.

As orders are executed, the computer calculates weather for each hex - and it may change during the day, allowing morning air ops to complete while scrubbing the afternoon missions, for example. Carrier battles can be similarly affected. Weather is literally part of the fog of war in UV and contributes significantly to the "friction" that separates plan from reality.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 9

- 4/19/2002 3:40:00 AM

fropa98

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/15/2002
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

>However, history will show that there were quite a few local meteorological surprises in this campaign.

Could you elaborate on this? In the equatorial climate covered in UV it is very unlikely you would see "surprises" outside of
localized effects that would never affect the whole map. While
a tropical low over New Guinea might give Port Moresby or
Rabaul operational problems those problems would never extend to Guadacanal and New Caledonia. That is just not meteorologically correct.

Your assertion of operations being affected for short periods of time however is very realistic. I'm quite confident in stating, without even seeing research on it, that many times morning missions were possible and afternoon/early evening missions were not for a particular place. However, those conditions
would never affect the whole map. In my professional opinion,
randomizing the places that become inoperable for a period of time as well as randomizing the conditions would be the best model for this part of the world. It seems from your last post that in fact the computer will do some randomization of local effects.
So my next question would be, would you allow thunderstorms
over New Guinea and Queensland for extended periods of time
occasionally as compared to the Solomons that would very unlikely see a "whole" days ops come to a halt over weather? ( i.e. only afternoon ops are scrubbed). As for carrier battles in this part of the world, except for rare exceptions in summer and fall in the Coral Sea, I would never have their ops affected by bad weather all day long either unless they hit a tropical cyclone near 20 South Latitude.

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 10

Weather... - 4/19/2002 7:15:25 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fropa98
[B]Could you elaborate on this? In the equatorial climate covered in UV it is very unlikely you would see "surprises" outside of localized effects that would never affect the whole map. While
a tropical low over New Guinea might give Port Moresby or
Rabaul operational problems those problems would never extend to Guadacanal and New Caledonia. That is just not meteorologically correct.[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry if I caused confusion. In fact, if anything is characteristic of the weather in UV it's that it does not extend across the map. Scattered systems involving clouds, rainstorms and thunderstorms affect very localized areas and seem to move on fairly quickly. When I said that there is a global forecast, that means that the player sees one forecast for the map which only indicates a likely tendency for the weather. It is still calculated locally but the assumption in the design is that the local effects are too variable to predict accurately for planning. Therefore, you plan on the general probabilities and then see how the local weather in various parts of the map affects your plans.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fropa98
[B]Your assertion of operations being affected for short periods of time however is very realistic. I'm quite confident in stating, without even seeing research on it, that many times morning missions were possible and afternoon/early evening missions were not for a particular place. However, those conditions
would never affect the whole map. In my professional opinion,
randomizing the places that become inoperable for a period of time as well as randomizing the conditions would be the best model for this part of the world.[/B][/QUOTE]

In effect, that's what is going on, though the randomization is weighted by the general forecast. I didn't write the formulae, but its effects match your description of the weather in this area currently and my readings of the historical effects of weather during these campaigns.

[QUOTE][B]So my next question would be, would you allow thunderstorms over New Guinea and Queensland for extended periods of time occasionally as compared to the Solomons that would very unlikely see a "whole" days ops come to a halt over weather? ( i.e. only afternoon ops are scrubbed).[/B][/QUOTE]

In general, you don't see entire days at a time scrubbed for several days except in rare instances. It's far more common that simply half a day is scrubbed or that the strikes get separated due to the base weather or the weather over the target. However, I have seen a few instances where Port Moresby or Rabaul had missions scrubbed with a few exceptions for nearly a week. The weather is, in general, quite locally variable.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 11

- 4/19/2002 12:42:08 PM

fropa98

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/15/2002
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Thanks for the clarification Erik.

>However, I have seen a few instances where Port Moresby or Rabaul had missions scrubbed with a few exceptions for nearly a week.

Port Moresby would be particularly vulnerable to such occurences
due to onshore flow from a tropical low in the Coral Sea that would enhance shower and thunderstorm activity inland as warm. moist air was lifted by the Owen Stanley mountain range.
This could easily enhance convective activity in the area for several days leading to a short-term monsoonal effect lasting for days or maybe even a week. Rabaul actually gets something of a reverse effect being on the other side of New Guinea. Tropical waves that happen by can have their moisture trapped against
Owen Stanley creating a cluster of thunderstorms and showers that then drift offshore and effect New Britain. It would not be unlikely in those events to see a two to three day period of convective precipitation with few breaks in the weather. These occurences are not as common as the Port Moresby one though.

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 12