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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> How close to ASL? Page: [1]
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How close to ASL? - 10/27/2000 6:04:00 AM   
M4 Jess Housley

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 10/17/2000
From: Annapolis Md, USA
Status: offline 		I think I am ready it pack up the old Squad Leader boards...(duct tape and all), My Question is... will you all be here for us old timers? Best one shot of all time for Squad Leader... The scenario... "The Last Bid" The situation... A Russian 10-3, 3 HMG's, on level 3 in a stone building... The Shot... German Stug III rolls snake-eyes,,, The resolute..... Everybody dies... building falls over and kills 3 more Russian SMG Squads and a 10-2 leader.. and A T-34 (made a model of that one) Jess PS; I was that Russian... :-(

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Post #: 1
- 10/27/2000 10:52:00 AM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 696
Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Half of my closet is taken up with ASL and the add-ons, but frankly I haven't played it since SP1 first came out. I do miss those 10-2 leaders though.

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Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 2
- 10/27/2000 6:18:00 PM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I wouldn't get rid of them though, I bought at least three of every module when I was really into it, don't play it right now, but just found out about VASL recently on the live chat we had here the one night, so might try that! The game is good for reference also, I'm always referring to it for units, etc. So just tuck it away into a convenient dry spot in the ole closet, who knows?! I used to like playing it on my ping-pong table,5 boards long, by 7 boards wide, about the size of our standard 'large' map, what a blast they were!! ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

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Mike Amos

Meine Ehre heißt Treue
www.cslegion.com

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 3
- 10/27/2000 6:56:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Though some would disagree, the closest thing to SL/ASL, at least for me, is SPWAW. Combat Mission is also very close to our all time board game favorite. It was SP1 that finally began to pry me away from SL/ASL which I had played since 1976, nearly 20 years. Now with bad peepers, and a 19" monitor, I'm glad I had an alternative. WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 4
- 10/27/2000 8:13:00 PM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I would submit that SPWAW is better. For one thing, hidden units that require some recce to discover. Sure recce ain't perfect but at least it serves some purpose. Also don't have the "ah ah I've got you because of rule 14.3.2.1.3.3b in the latest edition which supercedes 12.3.5.6x which you are obviously using" Yeesh. Any game where I concentrate on Tactics instead of the game procedures "which phase is this again?" is a superior simulation in my, design-for-effect view...

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"...these go up to eleven."
Nigel Tufnel

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Post #: 5
- 10/27/2000 10:23:00 PM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline 		I never liked ASL. In fact, I went out of my way to never play it. Needless to say I was very very happy when Steel Panthers was released since it solved most of the problems I had with ASL. Now, with SPWaW version 4.4 on my PC, somebody would have to chain me to a table and apply electrodes to get me to play ASL.

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VAH

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 6
- 10/28/2000 2:38:00 AM   
BlitzSS

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: wasChicagoLand, now DC
Status: offline 		Grumble wrote-> 'Also don't have the "ah ah I've got you because of rule 14.3.2.1.3.3b in the latest edition which supercedes 12.3.5.6x which you are obviously using' Ya, I miss the Litigation Phase too!!!,it sure is nice to have the CPU handle all the details, especially on the huge scenarios. Saving the game is easier now then keeping wives, children, and pets away from the counters. The CPU is a convenient opponent, and with TCP/IP and multi-players it has even gotten better, but I don't feel that anything will ever replace the gang around the old board game with a weekend or holiday to burn. ------------------ Old gamers never die; young ones do.

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"Nuts"

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 7
- 10/28/2000 4:37:00 AM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Yah, some guys just could NEVER take your word on a ruling, just had to diddle around for 15 minutes while 'General Dithers' looks up the freakin' rule, only to find out I was right all along,Aaaargghhh!!! Still was good gaming though;-) ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

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Mike Amos

Meine Ehre heißt Treue
www.cslegion.com

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 8
- 10/28/2000 5:43:00 PM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 696
Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Weekend or holiday to burn? It took me several weeks just to simulate a half hour of combat!

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Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 9
- 10/28/2000 6:09:00 PM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, we won't even go into the 7 months it took to do a divisional size, playing almost every night!!! I'll take SPWAW any day;-) ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

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Mike Amos

Meine Ehre heißt Treue
www.cslegion.com

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 10
- 10/28/2000 10:46:00 PM   
Jack

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Anybody who has played ASL can't say they miss the hero creation or the Berserk rule, how about battle hardening and a hero created in the same roll of the dice. There is also no better feeling of rolling snake eyes in the Close combat phase and eliminating a enemy platoon with one squad and getting another leader out of it. I took out a tiger once with a 60mm mortar, rolled snake eyes, and rolled another 2 on the IFT. You could go on and on about the differences but each game has their pro's and con's. Play Red Barricades in ASL and you will see what I mean, that is the pinnacle of ASL. Just my two cents, saying all that I do find it easier to download a turn play it and send it back. All with no rules Lawyers.

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Post #: 11
- 10/29/2000 1:40:00 AM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		I loved ASL but finally sold all my ASL collection because I just didn't have the time to play it. It was very labor intensive. I still recall The Guards Counterattack fondly. I also played a great Solitaire ASL game in which my German side was assaulting a Russian defensive position on a hilltop when a random Russian rocket barrage hit among both of us. My shattered Germans were able to recover and take the hill over the equally shattered Russians. I think that is the most realistic moment I ever encountered playing a board game. [This message has been edited by JW (edited October 28, 2000).]

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Post #: 12
- 10/29/2000 1:39:00 PM   
degen


Posts: 166
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: California
Status: offline 		Squad Leader was great when it came out, but I could not keep up with all the add-ons. Plus, changing the rules usually made the game more complex to manage and took some of the fun out of it. On the other hand, with SPWAW, the fine people of Matrix have developed and honed a great game that uses the computer to take care of the added rules and complexity. What a deal! Occassionally, I do miss the heavy boards and those thick, rich-looking counters. But then I get them out, set-up a game, and mess up the arrangement by bumping the table, so I go back to the computer. ------------------ "I would have much rather that he had given me one more division" - Rommel after receiving his field marshall baton

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"I would have much rather that he had given me one more division" - Rommel after receiving his field marshall baton

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Post #: 13
- 10/29/2000 8:19:00 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		To answer the original question, yes, I would rank SPWAW as close to the ASL experience. Now that I don't have time to play most boardgames, I know I can get a similar experience playing games like SPWAW or TOAW. But there is still something comforting about manipulating those counters and browsing thru the rules looking for the section that deals with what is happening on the board at the moment.

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Post #: 14
- 10/29/2000 10:41:00 PM   
Fabs

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 6/5/2000
From: London, U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by victorhauser: I never liked ASL. In fact, I went out of my way to never play it. Needless to say I was very very happy when Steel Panthers was released since it solved most of the problems I had with ASL. Now, with SPWaW version 4.4 on my PC, somebody would have to chain me to a table and apply electrodes to get me to play ASL.
Hear, hear! My experience is virtually the same. I found ASL incredibly slow, error prone (so much to remember!) and cumbersome. Never touched it again after SP1 came out. It had some neat bits (the multi-hex fire zone for MGs) but was definitely inferior with regards to the more adrenaline inducing aspects of the SP games (fog of war, quick combat results that make the action quick, etc.). ------------------ Fabs

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Fabs

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Post #: 15
- 10/30/2000 6:08:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Two big advantages for me, personally. 1. My fingers are too clumsy and my eyesight too poor. I love counters, but they don't love me. 2. I need to keep the "feel" of the battle. As wonderful as ASL was, it moved too slowly. By that I mean I lost the feel of the battle progressing. Many of you have already said this, and I just wanted to agree with you...WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 16
- 10/30/2000 8:10:00 AM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		I played ASL nearly exclusively solitaire. It moved much faster that way, especially since I ignored a lot of the rules (which still left a whole lot of rules to follow). I have to agree that when played against a live opponent it often bogged down in rules arguments and simply finding the rule to meet a certain situation. But it was a great game, a wonderful attempt at a system.

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Post #: 17
- 10/30/2000 10:33:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah the social aspects could be cool IF you had players who liked to win, but didn't play the anal-retentive rules dude. I remember one game at a friend's house and our girlfriends came over. We did the standard "one more turn", naturally a single turn took 45 minutes. Ooooh, it was ugly; we had to do many Chik-Flix after that one...

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"...these go up to eleven."
Nigel Tufnel

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Post #: 18
- 10/30/2000 12:24:00 PM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 696
Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		This is a great thread, because I never realized how many people walked down the same ASL path. Although ASL will always occupy a warm and fuzzy place in my memory, I'll take any version of SP over it, especially SPWaW. I'm going to keep my copy though, as it makes a decent reference to model scenarios.

_____________________________

Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 19
- 10/30/2000 12:57:00 PM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		i liked squad leader and asl and stuff but i could never manage a solitare game and oponents were hard to find ...i prefer computer games .. and i always thought SP series was more like minatures only without all the painting which i loved ... speaking of board games i keep seeing alot of mention of Finland and winter war anybody ever play Winter War by the old Strategy&Tactics magazine i think it was one of their first games in their magazine ..at least a very early game ...

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"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

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Post #: 20
- 10/31/2000 9:44:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		OT but, for a game about the Winter War you might want to see "A Winter War" by GDW. Outstanding OOB work and a pretty smooth system, only about 12 pages of rules-unlike ASL...

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"...these go up to eleven."
Nigel Tufnel

(in reply to M4 Jess Housley)
Post #: 21
- 10/31/2000 11:26:00 PM   
Windo von Paene

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 5/16/2000
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Well I never made it to ASL. I had Squad Leader, and got the Cross of Iron and Crescendo of Doom expansions, but then I changed schools, lost my gamer partners, and never made it back... Of course there were no PC's back then so it's not like I had a lot of choices.

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Post #: 22
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