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A question on base reduction.

 
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A question on base reduction. - 6/12/2002 9:21:13 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		The situation is that it's Aug '43 and I just took Shortland I. What I did was to build bases around it to interdict any and all supplies going into the base, and then built a last base on the Treasury Is. for LRCAP and minesweeping purposes. Also during this time, I was conducting round-the-clock bombing of the port, field, and troops, as well as flying LRCAP at night with my P-70's.

The reason for the question comes from the fact that Shortland had at least 5 CD batteries, which explains the reduction efforts. When I landed, Shortland was at 100 damage in all areas, and had been reduced as far as I thought was possible. Still, I was expecting to take enormous transport losses from the CD batteries, but I didn't. None. No damage at all. [I]Not one shot[/I].

So, it's obviously possible to reduce CD batteries to the point of total ineffectiveness, but what precisely does this? Is it related to the base damage, the remaining supply, or both? Will they even fire in the first place if they're completely out of supply?

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Post #: 1
- 6/12/2002 10:24:20 AM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		In the PBEM game I have going I've noticed several things concerning CD units. First, my CD units take damage from bombing raids and bombardment missions. Second, I have watched them dwindle away from lack of supplies. If you had them isolated and were pounding the heck out of them, its no wonder they could not respond to your landings.

Rick

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Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 2
- 6/12/2002 11:14:40 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Interesting. Roughly speaking, about how quickly do they take damage from attacks?

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Post #: 3
- 6/12/2002 11:48:54 AM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		Kidd, you mentioned that they are taking damage from bombing raids. Are they taking damage from port or airfield raids? I am assuming port raids.

Have they been attacked by bombardment groups? Have bombardment groups been effective.

I did a couple of bombardments from substantial cruiser groups and didn't appear to do any damage from recce reports. Although I took some DD damage.

The Coastal defense actions are an area I would like to see some sort of combat report. It is very difficult to see what is happening and CD's are very dangerous.

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 4
- 6/12/2002 5:34:30 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		Well, CD units are just like any other unit. You can pick them up and transport them or you can march them. I think there might be some that are too big to move but I'm not sure. When you see the combat results and it says that the enemy lost so many men and X amount of guns, it is possible those guns are from the CD battery. I see this message on all types of raids so I assume any of them could cause damage. As for starvation and disease, it is a long slow death.

Rick

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 5
Another problem - 6/12/2002 5:57:47 PM   
vils

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		I am in March 43' and am trying to take Shortland. However, its forces strength is 67.000, and i have twice landed 20.000 units, who gets totally wiped out within 2 days..

Shortland has been fully bombed for several months, and its damage is 100 percent, along with no supplies, i have denied every single ship-approach since December..

So.. how the heck do i take it?

Its not possible to land 60.000 infantry in 1 turn.. so i recon Shortland is totally 'untakable'..


Please help!

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Take Command! - Lewis E. Lyle

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Post #: 6
- 6/12/2002 6:51:18 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Vils
some questions, how do you know it is out of supply ?, have you blocked out subs and air transports ?
is it putting any planes into the air, or are they all grounded
what are you "bombing" with ?
are you useing any fighters ?

in my game I landed and there were 76 000 men on the base, I just landed a raid on it a week ago and there are now 36 000 men on it
since then, for the last 7 days I have been stepping up the attack on Shortland, but been hampered by rain and thunderstorms

so in 7 days, I have hit it with 2359 fighter and 86 bombers, I have claimed 23 kills on the ground and 1 air kill (?) my troops claim they have killed 15150 men during these strikes

now then even I think those claims are a little on the high side, I do think that they do mean that alot of troops are going from the ready for action side to the unfit side

do you have Muna, Vella Lavella, Bruin, Jaba ? load em up with P-40/P-39/P-400 and hammer the base with full sweeps (don't know the time frame of your game, I got the P-47 as a sweeper and it is murder to the ground troops)

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 7
- 6/12/2002 7:14:48 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Yes! That's precisely what I did! The Japs had 70k+ troops for me too.

Vils,

You know they're in bad shape when there's no more AA fire to greet your raids.

Kid,

Thanks, I guess I'll just assume they take damage like any other unit. :)

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I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

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Post #: 8
Ahh ok - 6/12/2002 7:57:39 PM   
vils

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Well i am poundering all jap bases, they have no air sorties whatsoever, anywhere, so no air-lift, only thing would be sub, but i have parked a 4BB TF there, and they have discovered nothing.

Still they are using AA on my fighter-sweeps and bombruns..

I guess i have to intensify my efforts a little while longer.

Sad The nuke was invented 2 years later, it could come in handy in occasions like this lol..

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Take Command! - Lewis E. Lyle

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 9
- 6/12/2002 9:14:27 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Vils
well, it took me a few more days to get ready, wanted to run some sweeps and bombardment raids into the base, before I tried to land any more troops in there

dropped off 1000 Marines, and waited, no counter attack !, the next day the 2nd raid slipped in, 500 more Marines and 1500 Army troopers, still no counter attack, set the Army to bombard and the Marines to a deliberate attack

3850 Yanks vs 26812 Japs, final odds of 14 to 1, base captured, 29701 dead Jap troopers

when you say AA is fireing, are you takeing damage ?, I haven't taken a AA hit in months, from Rabaul, Kavlieng or Shortland, and all basicly fell with out a HARD fight

hmmmmm, don't think Truk will really fall, so guess it is time to just sit back and wait for the war to end, nothing else to take

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 10
- 6/12/2002 9:15:25 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		You really need to pound the stuffing out of it continuously. Here's what I did:

PT boats stationed at the harbor to take out the barges.

1 bombardment group with at least 1 BB and 3 CA's hitting it every turn (had a rotation of 3 TF's).

170-200 medium bombers hitting the port, airfield and ground units from Lambeti every good weather turn.

2 P-40 (they're switching to P-38's so I'm switching them to F4U's) squadrons on Buin (or whatever the base directly north is) on LR CAP to intercept air transport.

140 Dauntlesses from Buin hitting ground units every good weather turn weather turn.

100+ B-17's/B-24's hitting Rabaul and Kavieng airfields/ports to start putting them on the defensive.

Mined Shortland and Rabaul harbors. My air units at Buka (or whatever that northern most base on Bouganville is) sunk his minesweepers so he's in big trouble due to mines.

I let this routine go on for about 3 months while I built up transtports and supply for the invasion. I forget the details of what happened when I landed, but I did take the island. There was no fire from CD's (although the first couple of bombardment groups got nicked up, so you might want to arial bombard for a whikle before sending ships).

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 11
- 6/12/2002 9:32:07 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		one thing I noticed, is if you send lots of fighter cover on the bomb raids, once the defending fighters are not flying anymore, the fighters start to act as sweepers

which I had 6 Squadrons of B-25's flying in and 6 B-24's, with P-38's flying cover, also had 16 Beaufighters hitting the port, with P-40's and F4u's flying cover, well the BF raids were doing much more damage then the bomb raids were doing

once I knew the ports were clear, I broke off the bombers and put them on ASW, and set the fighters to sweep the target, then it was all downhill from there for the JP, the sweeps hit the fields, ruining any planes sitting on the ground and also shooting up the troopers

to be honest, never seen a Bombardment TF do any major damage to a base, it will hit the field and knock out planes sitting around, and fire some shells into the port and do more damage to any damaged ships inside, but for troops, never seen a decent raid (have seen 150 + hits on the runway, which was sweet)

HARD_Sarge

Air Power is the key
losses, combat 509 Allied to 1885 JP, lost 310 to Flak, the JP lost 1704 on the ground, total losses of 2106 for the Allies to 4392 for the JP

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 12
- 6/12/2002 10:27:21 PM   
chrisp

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: Wichita, KS
Status: offline 		If the Japanese have 70,000 troops on Shortland, why bother taking the place? Isolate it. Since VP's for bases are dependent on supply, if you simply prevent an meaningful supply runs and keep bombing the place, the number of VPs for Shortland will dimish accordingly. And those 70,000 troops will not be available elsewhere.

Wasn't this, after all, the whol strategy behind isolating Rabaul? It had too many troops to take, so it was surrounded, isolated, and bypassed.

Chris P.

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 13
- 6/12/2002 10:54:28 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Why take it ?
because it is there, in the real world, there were other and more importent targets down the road, in the game, there is not, which the point total for the JP may fall due to loss of supply, you do not get the points for the base either if you do not take it, also there are the points for the dead JP troops

but as you say, I also bypassed it, until, I was able to pound it into dust and then take it

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 14
- 6/13/2002 4:13:15 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		If there are 70k troops on Shortland, I will bypass it. Until I have nothing better to do, that is. 70k troops is something like 700 points, give or take a few 100. That's the equivalent of 2 CV's. :)

_____________________________

I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 15
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