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Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 3:29:00 PM

Icedawg

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From: Upstate New York
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Why do you actually have to r and d these things? Why are they not available until 1945? We're talking about 1920s/1930s era aircraft here. Shouldn't they be immediately available as of 12/41 (and with a huge pool of available aircraft already produced at that)?

I ask because I'm in the midst of setting up my aircraft industry and am deeply saddened by the fact that I have to waste valuable research factories on these old clunkers. I could of course not devote a factory to them, but if I decide such I won't receive the swarm of Spruce/Willow etc squadrons late in the game.

While I'm at it, I have another question. IIRC, back in WiTP, research factories automatically became production factories once the aircraft they were assigned came on line. Is this still the case in AE?

Post #: 1

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 4:32:22 PM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

Why do you actually have to r and d these things? Why are they not available until 1945? We're talking about 1920s/1930s era aircraft here. Shouldn't they be immediately available as of 12/41 (and with a huge pool of available aircraft already produced at that)?
... I ask because I'm in the midst of setting up my aircraft industry and am deeply saddened by the fact that I have to waste valuable research factories on these old clunkers. I could of course not devote a factory to them, but if I decide such I won't receive the swarm of Spruce/Willow etc squadrons late in the game.

I have no idea about which you speculate ... but I feel that you think all aircraft need to be researched to get them ... this is not the case. You don't need to R&D anything and you'll still get them at the date stipulated... and then of course you do get the airgroups arriving with a small no of planes anyway, so you can then up/downgrade them if you're not producing these types

quote:

While I'm at it, I have another question. IIRC, back in WiTP, research factories automatically became production factories once the aircraft they were assigned came on line. Is this still the case in AE?

Depends on what you've set for R&D realistic or not iirc...

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(in reply to Icedawg)

Post #: 2

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 5:38:04 PM

Icedawg

Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

I have no idea about which you speculate ... but I feel that you think all aircraft need to be researched to get them ... this is not the case. You don't need to R&D anything and you'll still get them at the date stipulated... and then of course you do get the airgroups arriving with a small no of planes anyway, so you can then up/downgrade them if you're not producing these types

I'm referring to the Spruce, Willow, Shiragiku, Ki-55 Ida and Ki-79 Nate.

I understand that researching only speeds up the arrival of the aircraft. However, you still need to devote a factory to produce these aircraft. At least that was how it was in WiTP - to actually receive a reinforcement squadron, you had to have a full complement of aircraft in the pool. Otherwise, you didn't get the squadron. That's what I think is ridiculous about these late war trainers. It seems as though they are using obsolete aircraft to train rookies (which is as it should be). However, there would have been plenty of these aircraft around in the 1920s and 1930s already. So why do you have to produce them?

< Message edited by Icedawg -- 4/23/2010 6:35:53 PM >

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 3

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 5:44:21 PM

Sardaukar

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From: Finland/Israel
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I think those are meant for Kamikaze use. Might be wrong, but availability date would suggest that.

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Post #: 4

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 5:44:58 PM

Icedawg

Posts: 1610
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From: Upstate New York
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quote:

While I'm at it, I have another question. IIRC, back in WiTP, research factories automatically became production factories once the aircraft they were assigned came on line. Is this still the case in AE?

Depends on what you've set for R&D realistic or not iirc...

So, if R&D is set to realistic, you are limited to the 18 production factories present at the start of the game? Therefore, you can only produce, at most, 18 different types of aircraft at a time?

So whenever a new type becomes available, I have to sacrifice one of the 18 types currently being produced to make room for the newly available type. That's a real bummer!

I think I'll restart the game using NOT realistic R&D (otherwise, I'd never be able to produce nearly enough planes).

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 5

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 5:46:44 PM

Icedawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I think those are meant for Kamikaze use. Might be wrong, but availability date would suggest that.�

Use, or training? If you try to use these things as kamikazes, none will ever make it to the target. They're wicked slow and fragile. CAP and AA will chew them ALL up.

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 6

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 5:48:20 PM

n01487477

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Joined: 2/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

I have no idea about which you speculate ... but I feel that you think all aircraft need to be researched to get them ... this is not the case. You don't need to R&D anything and you'll still get them at the date stipulated... and then of course you do get the airgroups arriving with a small no of planes anyway, so you can then up/downgrade them if you're not producing these types

I'm referring to the Spruce, Willow, Shiragiku, Ki-55 Ida and Ki-79 Nate.

I understand that researching only speeds up the arrival of the aircraft. However, you still need to devote a factory to produce these aircraft. At least that was how it was in WiTP - to actually receive a reinforcement squadron, you had to have a full complement of aircraft in the pool. Otherwise, you didn't get the squadron. T

hat's what I think is ridiculous about these late war trainers. It seems as though they are using obsolete aircraft to train rookies (which is as it should be). However, there would have been plenty of these aircraft around in the 1920s and 1930s already. So why do you have to produce them?

Well, that was witp this is AE, you don't need a full compliment to get the airgroup ... and most of these airgroups come with a few planes (which you don't need to produce) -- they are free. Then you can upgrade / downgrade to your hearts content... As for dedicating a factory in 42 for something that arrives 2 years later ... I think you need to rethink that.

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to Icedawg)

Post #: 7

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 6:18:19 PM

Icedawg

Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
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[/quote]
and most of these airgroups come with a few planes (which you don't need to produce) -- they are free. Then you can upgrade / downgrade to your hearts content...
[/quote]

This is very nice to know! Thanks. So, I basically get the squadrons at no cost. Sweet!

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 8

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/23/2010 6:49:57 PM

sven6345789

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From: Sandviken, Sweden
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yup, you get them at no cost, and they represent of map training groups which become available on map in 1945. Their purpose is to use them as Kamikazes.

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(in reply to Icedawg)

Post #: 9

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/24/2010 1:20:47 AM

timtom

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From: Aarhus, Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

So whenever a new type becomes available, I have to sacrifice one of the 18 types currently being produced to make room for the newly available type. That's a real bummer! I think I'll restart the game using NOT realistic R&D (otherwise, I'd never be able to produce nearly enough planes).

Factories doing "R&D" convert to production once the a/c availability date rolls round, ie the number of factories increase.

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Post #: 10

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/24/2010 2:47:49 AM

n01487477

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Joined: 2/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg
quote:

and most of these airgroups come with a few planes (which you don't need to produce) -- they are free. Then you can upgrade / downgrade to your hearts content...

This is very nice to know! Thanks. So, I basically get the squadrons at no cost. Sweet!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 4/24/2010 2:48:39 AM >

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to Icedawg)

Post #: 11

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/24/2010 7:51:11 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
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As n01487477 said, they come with few planes you do not need to produce. I think (since not Dev or Beta Team, I don't know for sure), that they are representing aircrafts Japanese stockpiled in 1945 for Kamikaze use against invasion of Home Islands.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 12

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/24/2010 2:33:40 PM

Icedawg

Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg
quote:

and most of these airgroups come with a few planes (which you don't need to produce) -- they are free. Then you can upgrade / downgrade to your hearts content...

This is very nice to know! Thanks. So, I basically get the squadrons at no cost. Sweet!

Ahhhhggggg! This attached image is making me drool! I'm going to get one of my computer-geek nephews to come over to my house and try to install Tracker. This looks like a great program (and hats off to those who devoted their time to developing it). It's just too bad I can't get it to install properly on my computer.

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Post #: 13

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/27/2010 1:25:18 PM

xj900uk

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Willows will die in droves if you use them for kamikaze attacks. Keep the Willows for training, but just beforet hey fly their first (and last) mission convert over to soemthing a bit faster, even an obsolete early model Oscar, Zero or Nate stands more chance of getting through

(in reply to Icedawg)

Post #: 14

RE: Training Squadron Aircraft - 4/27/2010 1:42:03 PM

Andy Mac

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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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In the first draft of the Downfall Scen I am working on the Japanese have 10,000 aircraft ready to defend the HI with about another 2,000 in stockpiles...

The allies also have about 10,000

There is a bit of a quality difference though !!!

(in reply to xj900uk)

Post #: 15