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Too cautious? - 3/19/2012 9:55:12 PM

GI Tom

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

Not new to wargaming, but new to WitE. Familiar with alot of hex based boardgames, and transition to this so far has been fair. However, I have several concerns/questions.

I've played several scenerios and Operations vs AI on beginner and normal and seemed to have held my own. Have just recently started my first full Campaign and it's the big boy. GC41. Axis, FOW, AI Normal, 1.06. I am smack in the middle of my 15th turn and I feel as if I haven't progressed far enough. Here is a general outline of what I've attained.

1. I've advanced generally on a line from N to S on map of Lenningrad down to Dnepropetrovsk. I've made more progress in center and am about 80 miles East of Smolensk. Am working on capturing Lenningrad still but on the outskirts. Finns have reached their no attack line. 20 miles west of city with still strong forces in front of me.
2. I've inflicted about 1.3 million casualties to SU as of this turn compared with my 300k casualties.
3. I've eliminated about 74 divisions in total, 45 Infantry, 14 Armor, 11 Cavalry, 5 mech, (several other brigades/fortifications, etc not counted in this)
4. I've destroyed around 3000 aircraft.

Here are my questions/concerns:

1. It seems as if by this turn I should be further east against the AI. Currently working on another pocket of about 20-30 divisions north of Smolensk. Am I lagging sorely behind?
2. Casualties seem low to me for SU and high as German. Thoughts? I seem to be losing between 10-20k per turn after AI is done moving. Can't quite figure that one out yet, no battles. Not sure where I view my attrition for that.
3. Am I destroying sufficient divisions against AI or should I be encircling many more? Pockets seem to slow my forward advance significantly. What are the best practices here?
4. Since turn 1, I seem to have no luck in either bombing anything or confronting enemy air forces. Seems like alot of interdicting going on though. I do run recon sorties every turn but not sure what else I should be actively doing. Bombing seems to get my butt kicked.
5. It is almost late September, I have not started digging in yet. What is the general consensus on this? Am I too late?

After reading several AAR's, I feel as if I'm being too cautious. Is this everyone else's experiece on their first AI GC or am I ass backwards? I try to keep very tight command and control but my HQ's are getting overloaded in certain areas. Any advice here? Changed a few leaders, but not many. I let the AI assign support units. I haven't gotten the full hang of it yet.

My apologies in advance for my sophmoric questions. Any help is appreciated. Don't have screenshots, but I can post some when I get home from work later if necessary.

Post #: 1

RE: Too cautious? - 3/19/2012 10:57:42 PM

pompack

Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GI Tom

Not new to wargaming, but new to WitE. Familiar with alot of hex based boardgames, and transition to this so far has been fair. However, I have several concerns/questions.

I've played several scenerios and Operations vs AI on beginner and normal and seemed to have held my own. Have just recently started my first full Campaign and it's the big boy. GC41. Axis, FOW, AI Normal, 1.06. I am smack in the middle of my 15th turn and I feel as if I haven't progressed far enough. Here is a general outline of what I've attained.

1. I've advanced generally on a line from N to S on map of Lenningrad down to Dnepropetrovsk. I've made more progress in center and am about 80 miles East of Smolensk. Am working on capturing Lenningrad still but on the outskirts. Finns have reached their no attack line. 20 miles west of city with still strong forces in front of me.
2. I've inflicted about 1.3 million casualties to SU as of this turn compared with my 300k casualties.
3. I've eliminated about 74 divisions in total, 45 Infantry, 14 Armor, 11 Cavalry, 5 mech, (several other brigades/fortifications, etc not counted in this)
4. I've destroyed around 3000 aircraft.

Here are my questions/concerns:

1. It seems as if by this turn I should be further east against the AI. Currently working on another pocket of about 20-30 divisions north of Smolensk. Am I lagging sorely behind?

You are lagging, but not necessarily "sorely". However see #2

2. Casualties seem low to me for SU and high as German. Thoughts? I seem to be losing between 10-20k per turn after AI is done moving. Can't quite figure that one out yet, no battles. Not sure where I view my attrition for that.

Rule of Thumb: If by turn 20 you inflicted more than four million you probably will win (hold Berlin), more than three million but less than four you might win, more than two million but less than three you might not lose, less than two million you will lose. This is just a loose rule and at the high end is much affected by the number of disabled: e.g. even with four million casualties if most are only disabled you will see them show up again before the war is over.

3. Am I destroying sufficient divisions against AI or should I be encircling many more? Pockets seem to slow my forward advance significantly. What are the best practices here?

The number of destroyed divisions does not matter that much in 41 since they return anyway. However see the comment in #2 about disabled (i.e NOT captured)

4. Since turn 1, I seem to have no luck in either bombing anything or confronting enemy air forces. Seems like alot of interdicting going on though. I do run recon sorties every turn but not sure what else I should be actively doing. Bombing seems to get my butt kicked.

Yep. Unless you use some of the unusual techniques demonstrated in some of the AARs, bombing doesn't achieve much after the first turn. I save a/c for ground support, interdiction and supply but that is just my technique; others use different strategies.

5. It is almost late September, I have not started digging in yet. What is the general consensus on this? Am I too late?

A lot of different ideas here. I try to estimate my winter line location and start digging as soon as I reach it. I continue to advance eastward in order to put as much distance as possible between that winter line and the front line when I start the withdrawal. Different strokes a lot here.

After reading several AAR's, I feel as if I'm being too cautious. Is this everyone else's experiece on their first AI GC or am I ass backwards? I try to keep very tight command and control but my HQ's are getting overloaded in certain areas. Any advice here? Changed a few leaders, but not many. I let the AI assign support units. I haven't gotten the full hang of it yet.

My apologies in advance for my sophmoric questions. Any help is appreciated. Don't have screenshots, but I can post some when I get home from work later if necessary.

I find I learn more by reading other people's responses to "sophmoric" questions than I learn reading responses to very exotic questions. The only bad question is the one you didn't ask.

(in reply to GI Tom)

Post #: 2

RE: Too cautious? - 3/19/2012 11:54:34 PM

henri51

Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline

My understanding is that gaining territory is almost useless (unless you take Leningrad or Moscow) except to give you room to retreat during the blizzard, and destroying the Red Army (mostly with pockets) is the name of the game. I have read that the last patch sharply reduces the effectiveness of first-move airbase bombings, but some have said that destroying those planes is useless anyway since they are all obsolete. Others have posted that if you can achieve a ratio of 3:1 in destroyed units, you will probably win. There are some here who have mastered all the ins and outs of this game and I am not one of them. Note that you are playing against the AI which I understand is a lot more forgiving than competent humans.

It may be a bit early in September to decide if you are winning or not - you have until December before the Blizzard kicks in and the Germans take a severe beating. Don't forget that the victory conditions will give you a victory if you still hold Berlin at the end, so destroying the Red Army and taking Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad may be possible only at the Easy level (I have done it-at the Easy level). Contrary to most other wargames, playing the Grand Campaign as the Germans with this game means 4 months of offensive warfare followed by four years of defensive play hanging on by your fingernails.

Henri

(in reply to pompack)

Post #: 3

RE: Too cautious? - 3/20/2012 2:00:25 AM

mmarquo

Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline

"My understanding is that gaining territory is almost useless"

IMHO, this is how the Axis wins; advance as far east as possbile causing the Soviet player to displace production - it takes time for the displaced factories to start producing again; and also, and this is the real ballbuster ---> capture/cause population/manpower centers to evacuate. Again, this really hurts the Soviet player as the manpower multiplier decrease significantly during the last years. Yes, go as far east as possible, then make an orderly retreat.

Marquo

(in reply to henri51)

Post #: 4

RE: Too cautious? - 3/20/2012 2:06:35 AM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GI Tom

Not new to wargaming, but new to WitE. Familiar with alot of hex based boardgames, and transition to this so far has been fair. However, I have several concerns/questions.

I've played several scenerios and Operations vs AI on beginner and normal and seemed to have held my own. Have just recently started my first full Campaign and it's the big boy. GC41. Axis, FOW, AI Normal, 1.06. I am smack in the middle of my 15th turn and I feel as if I haven't progressed far enough. Here is a general outline of what I've attained.

1. I've advanced generally on a line from N to S on map of Lenningrad down to Dnepropetrovsk. I've made more progress in center and am about 80 miles East of Smolensk. Am working on capturing Lenningrad still but on the outskirts. Finns have reached their no attack line. 20 miles west of city with still strong forces in front of me.
2. I've inflicted about 1.3 million casualties to SU as of this turn compared with my 300k casualties.
3. I've eliminated about 74 divisions in total, 45 Infantry, 14 Armor, 11 Cavalry, 5 mech, (several other brigades/fortifications, etc not counted in this)
4. I've destroyed around 3000 aircraft.

Here are my questions/concerns:

1. It seems as if by this turn I should be further east against the AI. Currently working on another pocket of about 20-30 divisions north of Smolensk. Am I lagging sorely behind?
2. Casualties seem low to me for SU and high as German. Thoughts? I seem to be losing between 10-20k per turn after AI is done moving. Can't quite figure that one out yet, no battles. Not sure where I view my attrition for that.
3. Am I destroying sufficient divisions against AI or should I be encircling many more? Pockets seem to slow my forward advance significantly. What are the best practices here?
4. Since turn 1, I seem to have no luck in either bombing anything or confronting enemy air forces. Seems like alot of interdicting going on though. I do run recon sorties every turn but not sure what else I should be actively doing. Bombing seems to get my butt kicked.
5. It is almost late September, I have not started digging in yet. What is the general consensus on this? Am I too late?

After reading several AAR's, I feel as if I'm being too cautious. Is this everyone else's experiece on their first AI GC or am I ass backwards? I try to keep very tight command and control but my HQ's are getting overloaded in certain areas. Any advice here? Changed a few leaders, but not many. I let the AI assign support units. I haven't gotten the full hang of it yet.

My apologies in advance for my sophmoric questions. Any help is appreciated. Don't have screenshots, but I can post some when I get home from work later if necessary.

Human(German) vs AI on the normal setting (once you master the game) is not that hard. I just tried out the AI with the new 1.06.04 and captured Leningrad/ Moscow and Stalingrad on turn 13.

The first time I played AI on normal I sucked also, so dont feel bad.

READ the AAR"s there ia ALLOT of great info you need to know before you get rolling.

Katza has a few good ones, myself, MT, Q-ball to name a few.

I spent about 2 weeks reading ect ect. Then took on the AI and kicked some ass. Then I started playing poeple.

Game is very complex dont expect to burn Rome to the ground in a few days/weeks or a month.

Most of us old timers had to learn the hard way, you simply have to take the time and read the many great AAR's.

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(in reply to GI Tom)

Post #: 5

RE: Too cautious? - 3/20/2012 3:08:44 AM

AFV

Posts: 435
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

Just as a comment, as your questions have really already been answered- I recommend you experiment with HQ buildups as the German.

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 6

RE: Too cautious? - 3/20/2012 2:19:13 PM

GI Tom

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

To all, thanks for input, it is appreciated. I have read several AAR's to date. I will continue to do so. Pelton, you are significantly further East than I am and I'm on Turn 16 now. I think maybe I wait around too long after I close a pocket. Again, thanks to all. As is usual for me, Matrix forums always very helpful.

(in reply to AFV)

Post #: 7

RE: Too cautious? - 3/20/2012 3:00:29 PM

henri51

Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

Just as a comment, as your questions have really already been answered- I recommend you experiment with HQ buildups as the German.

I have seen this mentioned a few times and I don't understand. How can you buildup German units when they are already divisions? Break them down into battalions and then build them back up?

Henri

(in reply to AFV)

Post #: 8

RE: Too cautious? - 3/20/2012 3:34:57 PM

Walloc

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

AFV, referes to HQ build ups, not unit break downs/build ups. Its at 20.6 in the manual. Its an essential tool in making pockets/continue the offensive for gemans in 41/42 beyond the first few turns and later on for russians. As its the only real way to get fully stocked on fuel and supplies once u deep(er) into enemy territory. Well, there is airdropped supplies but HQ build ups are much bigger in scale than what u can do tho essential enough in it self via airdropped supplies/fuel.
Note that there are some patches affecting the ability to make em. HQ have to be within 20 MPs of a working RR now.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 3/20/2012 3:47:16 PM >

(in reply to henri51)

Post #: 9

RE: Too cautious? - 3/20/2012 10:15:14 PM

Michael T

Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline

"IMHO, this is how the Axis wins; advance as far east as possbile causing the Soviet player to displace production - it takes time for the displaced factories to start producing again; and also, and this is the real ballbuster ---> capture/cause population/manpower centers to evacuate. Again, this really hurts the Soviet player as the manpower multiplier decrease significantly during the last years. Yes, go as far east as possible, then make an orderly retreat.

Marquo "

Agree with this except the part about an orderly retreat :)

Keep heading East!

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(in reply to Walloc)

Post #: 10

RE: Too cautious? - 3/21/2012 1:30:22 AM

Edward74

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/17/2012
Status: offline

I have seen this mentioned a few times and I don't understand

(in reply to Michael T)

Post #: 11

RE: Too cautious? - 3/21/2012 2:49:03 AM

randallw

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward74

I have seen this mentioned a few times and I don't understand

Do you mean HQ buildup? The idea is that the HQ collects extra trucks and passes out fuel and supplies that turn, allowing extra movement next turn. The downside is that the units cannot move that turn, and the truck pool suffers losses.

(in reply to Edward74)

Post #: 12