A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgain(Not USSR): (No HardLuckYetAgain please)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgain(Not USSR): (No HardLuckYetAgain please)

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A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgain(No... - 4/9/2017 3:19:39 PM

Stelteck

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
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Hi.
So this a small AAR for my new game against HardLuckYetAgain.
I'am soviet.

The scenario will be the bitter end campaign. This scenario give points day after day to german for the ownership of victory location, most important are moscow and Leningrad.

In previous campaign, i gave everything to hold moscow, with quite some success. Unfortunately, Leningrad was lost very early and gave so much points to germany that it was impossible to win, as the city is also very hard to liberate during late war. Probably harder than moscow.

So to try to counter balance this effect, i decided for this campaign to focus my defensive effort on Leningrad (even over moscow). Even fighting the Finns in the north to secure the area as much as i can.

We will see what will happen.

I noticed also from previous campaign than it is not so important to save tons of industries, especially armement points, so it is not important if south fail.

Let's fight

Option are :
Real(hard, not mild) Winter.
No combat bonus.
Fixed Weather.
Common house rules about para drop and amphib operation.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/9/2017 3:35:56 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 3:25:24 PM

Stelteck

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
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Turn 1 : 22 June 1941

Our new WW2 begin !!!

The ennemy opening is really good. As most opening are nowadays, when it is not me playing the german.

A little classical maybe.

Relative to Pelton's opening, i find this more chaotic and fluid, less structured and organized but as efficient. Not the same general personality i guess.

I now have only 89 trained divisions to fight the german assault. It is so unfair !!! Especially as one german division is worth 3 russian ones.
So i have only 30 real divisions to fight 150+ ennemy ones. And i will have to wait turn 3 to beginning to have renforcement. Renforcements that i will need monthes to train.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/9/2017 3:33:12 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 2

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 3:33:20 PM

Dinglir

Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
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Good luck to you both.

I think you are right in your assesment of the Bitter End Scenario. If the Germans take either Leningrad or Moscow in 1941, they are going to earn a LOT of Victory Points. I haven't done the math, but I'm close to thinking that either city is worth the destruction of an entire infantry division every turn when counting the VP's.

Are you playing mild or normal blizzard and do you have any bonuses?

_____________________________

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To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 3

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 3:34:24 PM

Stelteck

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Ha sorry :
Option are :
Hard Winter.
No combat bonus.
Fixed Weather.
Common house rules about para drop and amphib operation.

(in reply to Dinglir)

Post #: 4

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 5:38:56 PM

M60A3TTS

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You should check early on to see if he commits either one of his AGN panzer corps, 41st or 56th, to the center push. That will tell you how much you will need defending Moscow.

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 5

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 8:22:57 PM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
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His southern front move looks very familiar, though he has improved a bit on the original

. Not the 'original' was very original.

The eastern part of the centre and the troops NW of Vilnius look as if they can get back in supply unless there are unseen G units that are in the way.

Pelton's opening is not nearly as good IMHO.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/9/2017 8:25:16 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 8:52:10 PM

Stelteck

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There is a little time delay on this AAR unfortunately. I may not be able to use all your advices

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/9/2017 8:56:17 PM >

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 7

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 9:54:04 PM

Hermann

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Joined: 11/17/2006
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be patient with Hardluck. don't rush troops to the front - the key to playing vs the panzerball is to avoid letting him dictate your movements. screen the area he isn't attacking with airborne and use the infantry to establish fortified positions at this stage I use 8 divisions per army hq. He has to focus on rail lines to continue his attacks that's where he will go use recon to track his 4 construction brigades progress don't lose track of them at all costs. focus on transports and long range bombers for now. concentrate them in vs units. you will get pocketed. make sure an army hq with a high admin is in the pocket and try to allow room for pocketed units to retreat into the pocket keep them in supply and try to delay but don't attempt to get close to them. your goal is to straddle rail lines he will attack straight up them so flank protection and weak center will slow him. make him close up to the position and halt then fall back and do it again. between rail lines have 8 division armies in horizontal lines east to west to prevent him moving parallel to your front. Concentrate your night bombers on his HQ airbases. hammer his recon nonstop to shut his eyes. use fighter bombers and tac air on ground attack to draw out his fighters and engage them during day turns and level bombers to hit airfields at night after the fighters are used up. blocking forces are only useful along rail lines using terrain.

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 8

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/9/2017 9:57:54 PM

Hermann

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supply drops go to the army hq in the pocket it will distribute them. key is make a plan and stay it don't ever react to hardluck he will eat you.

(in reply to Hermann)

Post #: 9

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/10/2017 5:31:48 AM

Dinglir

Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
supply drops go to the army hq in the pocket it will distribute them

I thought this was changed in a recent patch?

As I understand, supply drops to an HQ will go directly to itself and not to fuel and supply dumps that may be distributed.

Has this been changed again?

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Hermann)

Post #: 10

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/10/2017 7:50:00 AM

Hermann

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nothing in the manual units draw supply from hq dumps if theres supply in the dump and the units attached it will draw supply

(in reply to Dinglir)

Post #: 11

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/10/2017 10:49:39 AM

aldiladeisogni1

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A very good first turn for german.

(in reply to Hermann)

Post #: 12

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/10/2017 11:07:39 AM

vonik

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Very good first turn .
The Germans (almost) succeeded to create 3 (!) concentrical encirclement rings in the South what is quite rare .
If he could really close the third circle, your whole Southern Front in Ukraine would evaporate in 2 turns :)

(in reply to aldiladeisogni1)

Post #: 13

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/10/2017 5:54:32 PM

MarauderPL

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The circles dont need to be completed, the important part is cutting the railroads. The little Soviet legs and tracks cant outrun the mighty Panzer III's and all (or most) of the units will be gobbled up next turn.

(in reply to vonik)

Post #: 14

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/10/2017 6:46:16 PM

Stelteck

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
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So, Pelton told about me that i was a runner type general. And in this game i ran a lot at start.

While my frontier army was destroyed by my opponent opening, i ran fast to defensive position, where i had time to dig some fortification with some of my early renforcements.

It was not very interesting to report (The ennemy advance with little resistance and cleared the pockets) so i immediatly jump to turn 4.

Turn 4 : 10 July 1941.

My complete army at the time :
(I appointed Joukov to Stavka, mostly hoping that it's political 9 will save me some admin point cost when assigning others commanders).

Situation in the south (Not my priority currently) :

The ennemy is not very fast here, it looks like it is not its priority either.

But in the north, it is something else :

I spent a lot of admin points and railroad capacity to create a strong NW front able to protect the side of Leningrad, but it is look like my ennemy is not really interested by Leningrad currently, but advance in the center.

This unwilliness to cooperate is quite frustrating. I'am quite confuse. I'am thinking also that it shall be difficult to manage railroad ressuply with only one fast axe of progression.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/10/2017 6:47:45 PM >

(in reply to MarauderPL)

Post #: 15

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/10/2017 7:22:49 PM

STEF78

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Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
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Hardluckyetagain is a very good player. I lost to him in 12 turns.

He went through VK to Moscow and is a master of logistics. You will face HQBU turn after turn.

Good luck.

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 16

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/11/2017 3:02:37 PM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann

nothing in the manual units draw supply from hq dumps if theres supply in the dump and the units attached it will draw supply

Updated manual is out of date. Was in a recent patch change

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Post #: 17

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/11/2017 8:40:19 PM

Stelteck

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
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Turn 5 : 17 July 1941

The ennemy offensive began in front of moscow !!! It is always a surprise how easy a front line is peirce nowadays. Yet the ennemy did not manage to fully encercle my troops, and also in the right of the yellow bar, the supply situation of panzers are "yellow". They are quite far from the railroad.

The ennemy advance was so quite that i had doubts of their capacity to operate with some efficiency here.

So i decided to counter attack, launching troops inside ennemy lines, and successfully put some zone of control in ennemy supply lines.

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 18

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/11/2017 8:50:02 PM

Stelteck

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Turn 6 : 24 July 1941

My offensive..... Was a very bad move !!!
I really underestimated the capability of panzers to operate so far from railroad, and also underestimated the number of panzer groups in the Area. (At least 3, maybe 3.5).
The ennemy launched some reserves and encercled all my best troops here. And still found some spare panzer to attack and crush my line of defense west, which was not so bad.
I have around 4 Armies isolated and doomed, and a very bad strategic situation.

On the other hand, in the south, nothing happened. Me and my opponent both removed a lots of troops from this area to help the battle in the center.

Stavka meeting is in progress for the future of the operations. A new strategy is needed.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/11/2017 8:52:41 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 19

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/11/2017 10:07:30 PM

timmyab

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
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Yikes! Situation critical, possibly terminal.

Being rolled by a strong Axis player is no disgrace these days though. Soviet play has to be extremely precise to avoid a runaway. In fact I'm not yet convinced it's possible to stop the very best Axis players from gaining a significant advantage in 1941.

This game shows why it's important not to overcommit to Leningrad before knowing where the pz groups are headed. VL is an important city and should have a garrison even on turn one (a sec unit will do). Build and maintain an adequate force there until PG4 is definitely commited to Leningrad.
I believe Moscow should always be top priority. Leningrad is expendable, Moscow isn't imo.

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 20

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/11/2017 10:38:22 PM

bigbaba

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oh my god. turn 5 and he is 100 km away from moscoy. this guy is a nightmare. his mobility is amazing. propably better to run in the south and ship everything to moscow and leningrad.

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Post #: 21

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/12/2017 8:32:25 AM

Stelteck

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At this point of the situation, i thought i have 3 viable strategies :

- Hard Defense of Moscow.
- Elastic Defense of Moscow & South strategy.
- Hard Defense of Leningrad.

Hard Defense of Moscow means evacuating troops from Leningrad and scrapping south front to regroup all troops to moscow for a desesperate but determined defense.
I discarded this option. First it is probably too late, all ennemy troops are in position to attack it, and my troops are not. Second, i already did this strategy in my last game and do not really want to do it again.

The south Strategy means evacuating leningrad, trying to slow down thing at moscow (with no intention of holding), but use the fact that the ennemy have few units in the south to hold maximum ground here, stalino, rostov, Voronev, etc.... Renforcement would be sent to the south as possible.
This strategy is very interesting. If i was a real life general, i would have taken it.
Looking at raw number, the fall of moscow and Leningrad will not prevent my armies to built and fight in the future years. In 1942, the battle in the south will be intense, but i will have a chance in the long run.
Unfortunately, victory conditions in the bitter end scenario is hard for me. With Moscow and Leningrad for 3 years, the ennemy will grab so much victory points it would be really hard to catch him, even if i took berlin around the historical date.

Last scenario, is the Hard Defense of Leningrad.
This scenario is also quite interesting because now my opponent have a lot of things to do. Capturing Moscow, going south, and more important, join the Finn to encercle leningrad, thought difficult defensive ground
He also really HAVE to take Leningrad, because if he do not do it, he will be in difficult situation when winter come.
It is a high risk high reward strategy. I have a bit chance to have a lots of troops encercled around Leningrad.
Chances of success are quite low, relative to the previous one, but it is my only chance to keep some victory point in accordance with the bitter end scenario. It is also consistent with my initial strategy.

So i choosed, the Lenigrad Defense.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/12/2017 8:33:50 AM >

(in reply to bigbaba)

Post #: 22

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/12/2017 11:36:27 AM

M60A3TTS

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In this case it might not hurt to bring your AAR fully up to date. I think you can trust HLYA not to look at your stuff.

You'll need to get a couple MiGs out of Moscow to save half your later IL-2 production if Moscow isn't already surrounded.

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 23

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/12/2017 7:44:26 PM

Stelteck

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So my troops deployed north :

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Post #: 24

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/12/2017 7:46:56 PM

Stelteck

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Turn 7 : 31 July 1941

In the north, the ennemy pause after its big push, in order to ressupply&reorganize.

In the south, according to the plan, i begin a general retreat.

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 25

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/13/2017 6:20:18 PM

Stelteck

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Turn 8 : 07 August 1941 !!

Finally august !!!

The ennemy did not loose anytime and sent a panzer group surrounded moscow.
It was expected, and it is not so bad as it is one panzer group less for the battle of Leningrad. Moscow was lost anyway.

Tons of my air force are reconfigured to be able to drop supply, and i intend to resist at moscow a lot of turn !!! The ennemy will have to commit good infantry to the battle to take it.

The battle for the north will begin soon.

In the south, the ennemy use my retreat to rush Karkov. It is not a major blow as it was expected according to plan.

It is all or nothing in the north. Maybe i should have choosen the southern plan with far less risk.

The northern plan was not really reasonnable. Never mind let's see.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/13/2017 6:23:09 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 26

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/13/2017 7:22:14 PM

M60A3TTS

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You must have taken a big hit to industry.

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 27

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/13/2017 7:40:57 PM

timmyab

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I'd be tempted to offer a draw at this point

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 28

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/13/2017 7:47:03 PM

Stelteck

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I will count industry loss when the dust will settle, but i'am not too worry as armement point for example is not so important in my opinion.

Unfortunately, my current strategy is high risk and if i got all my troops encercled at leningrad, i will probably have to offer a draw.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/13/2017 7:51:34 PM >

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 29

RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/13/2017 8:26:19 PM

bigbaba

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From: Koblenz, Germany
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holy moly. this guy is a steam roller. he can advance to kazan when he wants and he still has plenty of time for rostov and leningrad.

Stelteck, i realy dont want to ruin your moral but you should consider retreating to wladiwostok at the pacific ocean.:)

(in reply to Stelteck)

Post #: 30