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AV in port - 9/10/2012 12:47:22 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Do FP based on AVs that are in port operate normally or does the AV have to be in a TF in the port?
Post #: 1
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 1:19:35 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		That question could be extended to any ship with a FP, CL, CA, BB, et al.

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RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 6:47:09 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		As an allied player. AV's, AVP's and AVD's seem to fly patrol aircaft and float planes okay while in port. I use them all over the Pacific in that capacity.

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RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 7:52:29 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I've noticed the same with disbanded AVs in port as Japan vs. the AI. I can't verify if they fly at full capacity, but they at least fly. I set mine to 60 or 80 Nav Search or 40 Search/40 ASW depending on which airframe the unit has, and will end up with sightings of TFs or subs that can't come from any other group. So it seems to work.

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Post #: 4
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 8:44:51 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		I leave my disbanded ships and float planes training(or searching) at 100% search and the fatigue barely creeps up while they gain some experience. It is extremely likely there is some cap on the numbers launched while disbanded because they clearly aren't training all of the pilots every day. And as Loka pointed out above, there are times when fleets are detected and there is no other possible plane that could have done the scouting.

< Message edited by CyrusSpitama -- 9/10/2012 8:45:28 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 9:00:33 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		i agree w/ Loka & Cyrus.

one thing i do fairly consistently - if any ship w/ embarked aircraft has to go off-line for repair or refit, i xfer the planes to a land base for missions or training, & keep a written record of which unit belongs to which ship. if a ship's in pierside or shipyard mode, embarked planes don't fly or train.

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Post #: 6
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 9:10:57 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		Good point there jmalter! I do the same for long term repairs, but if just a few days? No worry! I have accidentally put ships in for long repairs without having the planes sit on the base to train. EASY FIX! Manage repairs and place that ship(s) on readiness status. Fly planes into the base and put the ship(s) back on its appropriate repair status.

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Post #: 7
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 9:22:06 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		i've done that a few times for ships under repair, if i discover i've forgotten to off-load their planes. but when ships go into upgrade, their planes & pilots are locked on board. w/ a BB on a 180-day refit, i can only gnash my teeth & rue the lost training time!

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Post #: 8
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 9:57:09 PM   
casmithasl

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 4/28/2011
Status: offline 		I believe that if you "show repair", you should be able to transfer to base.

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Post #: 9
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 10:14:00 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

As an allied player. AV's, AVP's and AVD's seem to fly patrol aircaft and float planes okay while in port. I use them all over the Pacific in that capacity.


Allied AVs etc have air support not air capacity. Allied AVs can be disbanned (and should) into a port to support any FP air unit based at the port.

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Post #: 10
RE: AV in port - 9/10/2012 11:01:02 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Why would you want to transfer small FP sized air units to a port for training, just leave them on the ship and set it to train works just as well.  For the larger CV/CVL/CVE based air units it makes sense as there's a 50% reduction for flying from a carrier in port.  For CS, AV with air capacity etc they could launch on the move but would have to stop to recover, at least I've always assumed they did with most operating stopped, usually in coastal waters. For this reason FP should not suffer this 50% reduction but I do not know if they do in the game. 

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Post #: 11
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 1:31:50 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		I always thought that AVs couldn't operate aircraft. I thought they just provided support for floatplanes at a base or dot hex and couldn't actually launch the planes they carried.

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Post #: 12
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 1:33:30 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

As an allied player. AV's, AVP's and AVD's seem to fly patrol aircaft and float planes okay while in port. I use them all over the Pacific in that capacity.


Allied AVs etc have air support not air capacity. Allied AVs can be disbanned (and should) into a port to support any FP air unit based at the port.



I thought this was the case for the Japanese as well. They don't actually operate aircraft and just provide support for floatplanes at bases and dot hexes.

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Post #: 13
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 5:09:46 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		USN AVs Langley & Wright have an aircap of 4 in addition to 28 seaplane support.

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Post #: 14
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 8:04:19 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

I always thought that AVs couldn't operate aircraft. I thought they just provided support for floatplanes at a base or dot hex and couldn't actually launch the planes they carried.


I thought that's what I said FP being float plane.

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Post #: 15
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 8:33:13 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
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From: Upstate New York
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

I always thought that AVs couldn't operate aircraft. I thought they just provided support for floatplanes at a base or dot hex and couldn't actually launch the planes they carried.


I thought that's what I said FP being float plane.


You said "Do FP based on AVs that are in port operate normally or does the AV have to be in a TF in the port?"

The key word "on" meaning that the planes were still boarded on the ship. I was getting at the fact that the manual says (or I think it says) that floatplanes have to be moved from the ship to the base. From there they can fly and the AV provides support.

I thought that was the main difference between CS and AV ships. The CS can launch aircraft from on board, the AV can't.

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Post #: 16
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 9:33:59 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		I thought the difference between CS and AV is that CS can launch aircraft at sea while AV only when at a base.

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Post #: 17
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 5:12:57 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		There are definitely several IJN AVs that can carry 12 of their own planes in addition to providing seaplane support. I've taken a great liking to them, they're very useful for setting up early search bases in the Solomons, etc.

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Post #: 18
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 7:49:00 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: casmithasl
I believe that if you "show repair", you should be able to transfer to base.

hi casmith,

from your suggestion, i looked at a pair of BBs using 'show ships under repair' instead of 'manage ships under repair'. under 'show ships', i was able to access their FPs & transfer them to the land base.

thanks v. much for the tip!

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Post #: 19
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 8:15:29 PM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

USN AVs Langley & Wright have an aircap of 4 in addition to 28 seaplane support.



Also the Dutch Arend class has a float plane capacity of 1 and 7 seaplane support.

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Post #: 20
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 11:21:53 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

I always thought that AVs couldn't operate aircraft. I thought they just provided support for floatplanes at a base or dot hex and couldn't actually launch the planes they carried.


I thought that's what I said FP being float plane.


You said "Do FP based on AVs that are in port operate normally or does the AV have to be in a TF in the port?"

The key word "on" meaning that the planes were still boarded on the ship. I was getting at the fact that the manual says (or I think it says) that floatplanes have to be moved from the ship to the base. From there they can fly and the AV provides support.

I thought that was the main difference between CS and AV ships. The CS can launch aircraft from on board, the AV can't.


I've looked in the manual prior to and after your post and cannot find a reference to this. Now if this is true it should be true for all FP on all ships except for CS and this would make no sense.

What I can find is this

'AV - An auxiliary used to tend float planes and flying boats. Differs significantly from CS in that AV type ships do no operate aircraft while underway and generally do not carry aircraft themselves.'

...which isn't the same thing.

Now back to my original question. Do FP based on AVs that are in port operate normally or does the AV have to be in a TF in the port? I'm assuming here that they do not suffer from the 50% penalty as none FP carrier based a/c do.

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Post #: 21
RE: AV in port - 9/11/2012 11:50:03 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		Considering when my AVs are disbanded in port sit there with 100% search training (typical until I start squeezing in some ASW) and only some of the pilots train, I believe they DO suffer a port penalty in this case. When my AVs are in an active fleet (assigned a TF), but parked in port, I have them also on 100% training. At this time they gain more fatigue and more pilots train. In short, my experiences say that AVs use their planes to their fullest extent while parked in port, assigned to a TF. I answered this question quite a few posts up (post 4). However, my experience is still limited with the game. I am only reporting the behavior I have noticed to this point, based on my settings.

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Post #: 22
RE: AV in port - 9/12/2012 12:24:00 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

I always thought that AVs couldn't operate aircraft. I thought they just provided support for floatplanes at a base or dot hex and couldn't actually launch the planes they carried.


I thought that's what I said FP being float plane.


You said "Do FP based on AVs that are in port operate normally or does the AV have to be in a TF in the port?"

The key word "on" meaning that the planes were still boarded on the ship. I was getting at the fact that the manual says (or I think it says) that floatplanes have to be moved from the ship to the base. From there they can fly and the AV provides support.

I thought that was the main difference between CS and AV ships. The CS can launch aircraft from on board, the AV can't.


I've looked in the manual prior to and after your post and cannot find a reference to this. Now if this is true it should be true for all FP on all ships except for CS and this would make no sense.

What I can find is this

'AV - An auxiliary used to tend float planes and flying boats. Differs significantly from CS in that AV type ships do no operate aircraft while underway and generally do not carry aircraft themselves.'

...which isn't the same thing.

Now back to my original question. Do FP based on AVs that are in port operate normally or does the AV have to be in a TF in the port? I'm assuming here that they do not suffer from the 50% penalty as none FP carrier based a/c do.


I just took "underway" to mean on board the ship, regardless of where it is. Maybe the devs meant "out to sea" when they wrote "underway". I guess that's where the confusion lies. I've never been in the navy, so maybe I need to have "underway" explained.

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Post #: 23
RE: AV in port - 9/12/2012 8:42:55 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

I just took "underway" to mean on board the ship, regardless of where it is. Maybe the devs meant "out to sea" when they wrote "underway". I guess that's where the confusion lies. I've never been in the navy, so maybe I need to have "underway" explained.



Moving or more precise moving through the water. Although most FP carring ships had some form of launcher (steam powered) so they could launch underway recovering was a problem were they had to stop. There was some mat thingy that was trailed behind so the FP taxied onto it and stopped then the mat was recovered but don't know how successful it was.

Do any devs know the answer to the original question.

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Post #: 24
RE: AV in port - 9/12/2012 3:48:28 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		I am curious about further testing on this. I have a fresh game and will try to test this issue a bit more. My goal will be to confirm the 50% penalty and to see if an AV out of port, but not moving still operates its planes and if at the full compliment. Again, it appears extremely likely the 50% penalty applies when the AV is disbanded in port, which does make sense. Early on, I put my Jap AVs to good use increasing sizes of my land-based FP squadrons so, plenty of opportunities to test this. Problem is these early turns can be quite long :)

< Message edited by CyrusSpitama -- 9/12/2012 3:49:18 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: AV in port - 9/12/2012 3:51:27 PM   
CyrusSpitama


Posts: 213
Joined: 2/21/2011
From: Naw'lins, Luzianna
Status: offline 		In case yall were wondering. I use my CS to increase the sizes of many FP squadrons(I aim for size 12-15) and some only get to size 9 via the AVs.

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