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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> SP:WaW Training Center >> Defend status?

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Defend status? - 1/17/2003 1:02:49 PM

stevemk1a

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My question is that if C&C is off, is there any advantage to setting a units status to "defend" if you wish them to defend. In other words, will they gain entrenched status quicker or is this only an advantage if C&C is on?

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- 1/17/2003 1:39:57 PM

rbrunsman

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My understanding is that this is only a C&C On bonus.

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- 1/17/2003 3:33:56 PM

Resisti

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]My understanding is that this is only a C&C On bonus. [/B][/QUOTE]

Correct.

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Federico "Resisti" Doveri

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- 1/17/2003 7:23:43 PM

john g

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From: college station, tx usa
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Resisti
[B]Correct. [/B][/QUOTE]

What happened to the op fire bonus?

I recall that units used to gain extra shots for op fire when set to defend, which was the only reason to set them that way when playing C&C off.
thanks, John.

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- 1/17/2003 7:50:37 PM

Resisti

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by john g
[B]What happened to the op fire bonus?

I recall that units used to gain extra shots for op fire when set to defend, which was the only reason to set them that way when playing C&C off.
thanks, John. [/B][/QUOTE]

I could be wrong here, but I do believe that the extra op fire (which indeed exists), is linked to the type of battle, namely a DEFEND vs. ASSAULT, and not the specific mode of individual squads.

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Federico "Resisti" Doveri

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- 1/18/2003 12:11:46 AM

Irinami

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I don't remember what I read in the manual stating that it was C&C-ON only (or it only did so indirectly).

Ah-hah. Page 30, changes to game play.

Special opfire comes in three varieties, Regular is triggered by units moving, Return is triggered by unit firing or moving
after it has fired, Point blank is triggered by moving in close proximity ([COLOR=blue]adjacent if in advance stance[/COLOR][COLOR=black], [COLOR=red]with in 3 hexes if in defend stance[/COLOR][COLOR=black]) Special Opfire will add suppression to a unit if it fails a morale check when it fires.

Page 34:

Units in Defend stance are about 33% more likely to receive �Special Opfire� when they have expended all their shots.

Page 54:
Units in defend stance receive �special Opfire� about 33% more often than when in advance stance. (Though it does state in the same paragraph that Stance is only relevant with C&C on.)

Page 63 refers to it without specifying C&C on or off. I think what you have is that the manual writers didn't think they had to state every single time that it was a C&C-ON only difference... which makes it closer to reading a UNIX man-page, in which you have to find out what the man-page ISN'T saying, too.

Still, I'll switch my units to Defend status, as it SEEMS to have an effect on whether or not they opfire, and it also SEEMS to me that they don't find cover unless they're in Defend status. Proof otherwise would be appreciated. :)

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- 1/18/2003 12:38:20 AM

Resisti

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]I don't remember what I read in the manual stating that it was C&C-ON only (or it only did so indirectly).

..sneak...

Still, I'll switch my units to Defend status, as it SEEMS to have an effect on whether or not they opfire, and it also SEEMS to me that they don't find cover unless they're in Defend status. Proof otherwise would be appreciated. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Still of the opinion it is a C&C ON-only feature.

As for taking cover, this is mainly a function of experience: make a simple test and set a couple of units IN ADVANCE STATUS, with an experience of 100-120, and see how fast they'll seek for cover ;)

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Federico "Resisti" Doveri

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- 1/18/2003 4:33:40 AM

john g

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]I don't remember what I read in the manual stating that it was C&C-ON only (or it only did so indirectly).

Page 34:

Units in Defend stance are about 33% more likely to receive �Special Opfire� when they have expended all their shots.

Page 54:
Units in defend stance receive �special Opfire� about 33% more often than when in advance stance. (Though it does state in the same paragraph that Stance is only relevant with C&C on.)

Page 63 refers to it without specifying C&C on or off. I think what you have is that the manual writers didn't think they had to state every single time that it was a C&C-ON only difference... which makes it closer to reading a UNIX man-page, in which you have to find out what the man-page ISN'T saying, too.

Still, I'll switch my units to Defend status, as it SEEMS to have an effect on whether or not they opfire, and it also SEEMS to me that they don't find cover unless they're in Defend status. Proof otherwise would be appreciated. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

The reason I remember it, is that Paul V mentioned here in the forum back when he posted each day, that that units in defend stance got a bonus even if C&C was off. That was about a year or so ago. It may have been changed since, but I always took what Paul said as gospel since he had such a strong hand in how the game played.
thanks, John.

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- 1/18/2003 5:35:44 AM

rbrunsman

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I used to switch Defend on and off in my C&C Off games, then I read that Defend status only helps with C&C On, so I stopped bothering to set to Defend. The result is that I have seen no difference in the way my men have behaved.

So, IMHO it is not worth the effort to bother with it.

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- 1/19/2003 10:05:36 PM

tracer

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From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by john g
[B]The reason I remember it, is that Paul V mentioned here in the forum back when he posted each day, that that units in defend stance got a bonus even if C&C was off. That was about a year or so ago. It may have been changed since, but I always took what Paul said as gospel since he had such a strong hand in how the game played.
thanks, John. [/B][/QUOTE]

I remember that post also; I started switching my units to defend status whenever possible. Even though there is documentation to the contrary, I figured 'what the heck' since there is no downside if C&C is off. It might just be a chimera, but think about the source: Paul does have that 'E.F. Hutton' status around here. :D

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Jim NSB

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