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Sandbox - Movement - 5/31/2017 10:06:15 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Movement

Movement is key to warfare and to winning this game. You have to move your forces:

Into their defensive positions
Into attack assembly areas
To attack
From off the board to where you need them
To plug a hole in your defense
To take advantage of an opening in the enemy line.

I want to improve my understanding of how movement works by looking at the different types of movement:

Hasty
Deliberate and
Assault

Look at how units react to enemy presence/fire when in each of the different movement types

Investigate the impact of the starting status of the unit (screen or hold)

Investigate the delay function – I keep forgetting how this works, so I need to make sure I really understand it.

How am I going to do this?

I’m going to use the tutorial and play both sides. This will give me a chance to ensure that I set up the situations I want/need to occur.



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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 5/31/2017 10:39:56 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I'm playing the tutorial head to head so that I can set things up the way I would like. This is my first head to head and it was weird seeing nothing in the initial stages!!!






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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 12:15:41 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		About 13 minutes later




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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 12:28:39 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Some conclusions or observations...




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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 1:04:58 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Response to enemy engagement

Okay, so now I’m going to set up an engagement with the British moving across open areas in each of the three movement types.

Hopefully, I can get everything into place right to get this to work…

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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 10:30:59 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I ran this with each Inf platoon moving with a different type of move order. The results were expected - the Soviet tanks wiped out the Inf Pl. The Hasty movement pl lasted seconds. The other two platoons did a little better.

I then ran two Challenger troops (pl) through the same thing - the first using deliberate movement and the second in assault formation. Both were able to respond to the T-80s, but both were hit hard and quickly.




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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 10:32:26 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Discussion

Maybe I set up the Soviets in too good a location as they did a ton of damage.

I tried with the tanks in Deliberate and Assault modes. The Challengers did a lot better – inflicting damage on the Soviets. The tank troop (platoon) with assault orders did better than the deliberate one – which should not be surprising.

What I learned

Ambushes are powerful. The Soviet tanks were in a great location and had a significant advantage right off the start.

Assault movement is a little better than deliberate movement in contact – this is important. I very rarely use assault movement, but I may need to rethink this. There is a longer delay at the start – the orders delay – but afterwards they unit moves faster and responds better to enemy fire.


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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 2:36:18 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		A look at how waypoints work... As, I have said a couple of times, I keep forgetting how this actually works.




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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 2:48:54 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Some interesting - at least to me - observations...




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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 2:53:56 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
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From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Waypoint 2




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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 4:37:57 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		What did I learn

I should use Assault move orders more frequently – especially at the beginning of a scenario. My forces will get into place more quickly.

The waypoint delays are done on the waypoints, but for the next waypoint time.


This was interesting and I will need to review this every once in a while.
I may try to do something like this to look into launching a Company level or Bn level attack…

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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 6:02:26 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		A very informative posting. Thanks for doing this.

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Post #: 12
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/1/2017 11:46:46 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
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From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Capn Darwin,

It was certainly helpful for me. Now, I just need to use what I have learned in my next game!

Have a good day,

Mike

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Post #: 13
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/2/2017 10:58:56 AM   
HeinzBaby


Posts: 174
Joined: 12/1/2014
From: WEST AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Good treatise on movement/combat effects there.
As in another post (Novice help with contact behaviour) I'm a big fan of Assault movement. My units go to where I want them to go,
and not freeze into 'Screen' mode under a Deliberate/Hasty move when they see a black cat cross in front of them...

In that pic with the Soviet Tank Co's in what I presume were Dug In, Hold command they would of shaved the roads clean. (any unit - NATO or Soviet in that position would of)
Assault move will end in a Hold command and better return fire or keep moving out of trouble taking loses on the go and not get butchered in place with a screen command after traveling Deliberate mode.
Why would anyone use Hasty movement in a combat zone is a head slap unless you are ABSOLUTELY certain your route is free of trouble.
Any command takes longer to execute after a Hold command, and using Assault movement right off the bat with reinforcements, I see no noticeable time loss.
Synchronising your waypoints is very important as stated, you don't want to drip feed your arrivals only to be defeated piecemeal.

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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/2/2017 11:06:44 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Hasty movement is road movement. Fast and easy to get hammered if the enemy pops up. I only use it to move recon at the start of a game or moving up reinforcements in "cleared" terrain or moving rear area support units to a new location. In combat, deliberate moves or assault if I am going after objectives.

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OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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Post #: 15
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/3/2017 12:46:36 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		HeinzBaby,

I like your comments and you made me smile - black cat. I'm going to try and use assault moves more often in my next battle.

The only time I have used Hasty movement was bringing my reinforcements quickly into the battle during the Pied Piper scenario. I may try Capn Darwin's approach on using it for my recce elements at the start of a battle.

Have a good day!

Mike

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Post #: 16
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/3/2017 1:52:34 AM   
HeinzBaby


Posts: 174
Joined: 12/1/2014
From: WEST AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

and not freeze into 'Screen' mode under a Deliberate/Hasty move when they see a black cat cross in front of them...

insert - Leo, T80, Chally, Abrahms instead of Black cat.
I shall light a candle for your 'Hasty' recce units

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Post #: 17
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 6/4/2017 12:48:41 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I'll light a candle for your recce units that you give Hasty orders to as well.

Hasty movement in my AO is only used in secure areas where I expect no contact.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 18
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 7/11/2017 4:13:10 PM   
KungPao


Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
Status: offline 		Regarding to Assault vs Move - Deliberate , Assault order might have a drawback:
From the manual
quote:

Assault – This is a formal attack order and is used when heavy opposition is expected. All vehicles are deployed in combat formation and fully prepared for combat. Average speed is kept relatively high to minimize time in the danger zone but reducing the effective use of cover along the way.


quote:

Move - Deliberate – Use this command when expecting to move against light opposition. Vehicles will mostly be in battle formation and move with tactical overwatch, but without any particular coordination with supporting arms. It will utilize a somewhat slower speed than for assault. Units with Move orders will not close with the enemy – i.e. voluntarily enter a location containing a known enemy unit. They will stop adjacent to it and engage in combat instead. If the enemy location is cleared then the unit will resume its movement. Units on the move will use terrain masking and cover better than an assault move and will switch to Screen when the last waypoint is reached.



Here are two screenshots
1/1st Arm move from 12,09 to Stetten, 1st pic is this unit moving under Move - Deliberate order, it shows the unit is in a covered posture.





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Post #: 19
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 7/11/2017 4:14:09 PM   
KungPao


Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
Status: offline 		2nd one is an Assault order. posture is exposed.







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RE: Sandbox - Movement - 7/11/2017 4:18:30 PM   
KungPao


Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
Status: offline
Here is the log recording the advancing speed

1st deliberate move
quote:

0500 hrs - Sir, commencing Tutorial Scenario as of 1 May 89 at 0500 hrs.
0500 hrs - Activity resolution for the period starting 0500 May 1.
0502 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1210 (elevation 2, cover 80%, move 80%) from hex 1209.
0505 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1311 (elevation 2, cover 80%, move 80%) from hex 1210.
0508 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1312 (elevation 2, cover 80%, move 80%) from hex 1311.
0511 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1412 (elevation 3, cover 40%, move 60%) from hex 1312.

move a hex in every 3 min, average speed is 200m/min

2nd Assault
quote:

0500 hrs - Sir, commencing Tutorial Scenario as of 1 May 89 at 0500 hrs.
0500 hrs - Activity resolution for the period starting 0500 May 1.
0502 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1210 (elevation 2, cover 80%, move 80%) from hex 1209.
0504 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1311 (elevation 2, cover 80%, move 80%) from hex 1210.
0506 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1411 (elevation 2, cover 30%, move 70%) from hex 1311.
0508 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1412 (elevation 3, cover 40%, move 60%) from hex 1411.
0511 hrs - 1/1st Arm arrives in hex 1413 (elevation 3, cover 80%, move 40%) from hex 1412.

in an open terrain, the unit is able to move a hex in every 2 min, average speed is 250m/min


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Post #: 21
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 7/30/2017 5:21:11 PM   
Enigma6584

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/23/2010
Status: offline 		What an excellent, informative thread! Bravo to all!

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Post #: 22
RE: Sandbox - Movement - 4/27/2018 3:36:37 PM   
ctcharger

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 3/12/2017
From: Akron, OH
Status: offline 		Never even thought about assault movement! Thanks for posting!


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