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Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 6:39:08 PM

Kuokkanen

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I'm looking for new tactical scale RTS (war)game. I have only little experience from Close Combat and Total War series. What are the newest & greatest from those fronts? Are there any other games to challenge those 2?

No need to limit recommendations to those series & their rivals. I have thorougly played and enjoyed Ground Control, Mech Commander, Dark Omen, Starfleet Command, Rules of Engagement (I'm getting old), and others (let's leave out C&C and the likes).

I remember something about Slitherine getting Warhammer license. Has anything come out of it yet? I remember seeing trailer about some Mech Commander like game for iOS (MechWarrior Tactical Command or some such). Anything playable out yet?

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 6:54:44 PM

Missouri_Rebel

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Without a doubt 100% Achtung Panzer operation Star. Klunky interface to the best RTS game ever released. Period.

The patching takes a bit to get used to but it is brilliant.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3080753

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 12/18/2013 8:00:50 PM >

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 7:38:38 PM

Boomer78

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I'd also recommend Achtung Panzer along with Reb. Also, Combat Mission (sort of RTS), the StarCraft series, and Company of Heroes. COH II is out now focusing on the eastern front. I haven't played it, but the first one is great.

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 8:07:57 PM

Rising-Sun

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There alot of RTS games out there, only need to know what genre you are looking for. From Matrix, there is Distand Worlds...
http://www.matrixgames.com/store/379/

Been testing this one out (Supreme Ruler 1936) was told it has better functions and more stabilty than previous SR...
http://www.battlegoat.com/supreme_1936.php

Since SR'36 is in beta and playable, i am still messing around with it though.

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 8:13:53 PM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

I'm looking for new tactical scale RTS (war)game. I have only little experience from Close Combat and Total War series. What are the newest & greatest from those fronts? Are there any other games to challenge those 2?

No need to limit recommendations to those series & their rivals. I have thorougly played and enjoyed Ground Control, Mech Commander, Dark Omen, Starfleet Command, Rules of Engagement (I'm getting old), and others (let's leave out C&C and the likes).

I remember something about Slitherine getting Warhammer license. Has anything come out of it yet? I remember seeing trailer about some Mech Commander like game for iOS (MechWarrior Tactical Command or some such). Anything playable out yet?

You might want to check out the demo for Panzer Command Ostfront. It's wego rather than RTS, but you can try the demo and see if it's what your'e looking for. And I think the full game is on sale for the holiday sale.

Rick

(in reply to Kuokkanen)

Post #: 5

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 8:27:51 PM

Alchenar

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I'll dissent and say that not only is Achtung Panzer Operation Star not the best RTS ever made, it is in fact not a very good game at all.
It's pretty but there isn't an actual game there.

Things to look at (in no particular order):

1.World in Conflict. It's what the guys who made Ground Control went and made next. Really pretty and fun and only �9.99. I suspect multiplayer is a bit dead by now though.

2. Men of War: Assault Squad. I'll let the trailer speak for itself.

3. Wargame Airland Battle. Spiritual successor to Ground Control. Single player is a bit rubbish in my opinion, it shines in multiplayer (if that's your sort of thing).

4. Combat Mission Normandy or Italy.

5. Scourge of War.

The only other name I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is Company of Heroes 2 but apparently Relic really dropped the ball on that one so I wouldn't recommend it.

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Post #: 6

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 8:58:23 PM

Missouri_Rebel

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You must have bumped your head if you think APOS is not even a game at all.

Unlike Cartoon Mission, the maps are huge, realistic and the game captures the ebb and flow of an operation. The artillery, command and strategic layers blow CM away. Infantry riding tanks into battle and a realistic command effect, spotters setting off flares etc etc.

CM does do a better job of infantry modeling, but the game lags behind in realism beyond that. I was a huge fan of the original CM, but that was long ago.

Graviteam, which make apos are releasing another game soon that even expands further the genre.

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11319.0

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.590970197628925.1073741828.590904460968832&type=1

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 12/18/2013 10:07:09 PM >

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 10:21:17 PM

L�tzow

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To each his own. I hated Achtung Panzer for it's atrocious UI and can just recommend to play the demo before purchase.

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Post #: 8

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/18/2013 10:48:42 PM

radic202

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quote:

ORIGINAL: L�tzow

To each his own. I hated Achtung Panzer for it's atrocious UI and can just recommend to play the demo before purchase.

I'm with Lutzow on this one.

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 12:21:24 AM

Missouri_Rebel

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I'll admit the UI takes some getting used to but it has been refined since the demo was released so keep that in mind. After I bought the game I quickly shelved it and didn't come back to it for many months. After dedicating some time to it, it immersed me like no other game before. To each his own for sure, but to suggest that it is not even a game is a gross exaggeration. Sorry if I came across as gruff.

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 12/19/2013 1:22:11 AM >

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 12:56:10 AM

budd

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The UI does suck at first and i quickly shelved the game. The 3 things that are issues with the game are the UI, patching, and german infantry killing tanks, that being said the game has alot of "o sh*t moments[like the first time my troops got strafed by a bi-plane] and immerses you into it really well[once i put the time in]If your willing to spend the time with it and put up with the patching process there is a great "game" there.

here's a link to a lets play by pew,pew,pew, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv2rhzNk_tM
Here's a link to some video's by Dane who has put in alot of time with the game http://www.youtube.com/user/RogersDane

look it over and decide for yourself.

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Post #: 11

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 3:05:52 AM

gradenko2k

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This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but might I recommend World in Flames?

===

On a serious note, I would recommend Blitzkrieg Anthology. Lots of replayability, gritty graphics, no base-building, unit/weapon type relationships are realistic, but without all of the difficult-to-learn interface cruft of more grognardy games.

http://www.gog.com/game/blitzkrieg_anthology

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Post #: 12

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 3:06:47 AM

Missouri_Rebel

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It looks like CM has been expanded on quite a bit and improved since the version I have, Normandy. It still looks very cartoonish imo and the battle areas are very small, but I think I need to reexamine the game. Is the new 2.0 update worth getting? Also, I thought I read somewhere where you can darken the terrain for a more realistic effect.

APOS, especially the winter battles convey a sense of enc=environmental realism. It actually feels cold when viewing.

Budd, that first video is horrible. While I enjoy the night battles, even the very dark ones without much starlight, they do not translate well in youtube. Just my opinion.

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 3:43:07 AM

Missouri_Rebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but might I recommend World in Flames?

===

On a serious note, I would recommend Blitzkrieg Anthology. Lots of replayability, gritty graphics, no base-building, unit/weapon type relationships are realistic, but without all of the difficult-to-learn interface cruft of more grognardy games.

http://www.gog.com/game/blitzkrieg_anthology

I remember anticipating this game from the initial previews but IIRC the tanks and other units had hit points. Seems like that is why I never perused it further. I had pretty high hopes after seeing the screens back then. Maybe I played a demo?

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 4:14:39 AM

budd

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Your right that first one is dark, didn't really look, but it is a series of lets play video's and they are few and far between for APOS.

I wish i could give the new CM a try but it doesn't run on my integrated card [hd3000] it runs on the next one up [HD4000]. I do have the first 3 CM games loaded and modded up, which gives me i think 6 installs because of the total coversion mods, scenario's and campaigns for years, looks like now a days they only feed you a little content at a time. Those first 3 had a lot of content for your buck.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

It looks like CM has been expanded on quite a bit and improved since the version I have, Normandy. It still looks very cartoonish imo and the battle areas are very small, but I think I need to reexamine the game. Is the new 2.0 update worth getting? Also, I thought I read somewhere where you can darken the terrain for a more realistic effect.

APOS, especially the winter battles convey a sense of enc=environmental realism. It actually feels cold when viewing.

Budd, that first video is horrible. While I enjoy the night battles, even the very dark ones without much starlight, they do not translate well in youtube. Just my opinion.

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Post #: 15

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 4:25:20 AM

aaatoysandmore

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Not Auctang Panzer....worst game I ever played. The interface is not intuitive and I couldn't make heads or tails which direct was up. I'd say Norbsofts Scorge of War: Gettysburg game and all those other games he's made in the civilwar era. Great Tactical RTS game, best ever to include Auctang (Lol sp) Panzer. Then 2nd I would recommend the COMMAND OPS series. Great AI and easily intuitive. Battlefronts CMx2 series is pretty good if you like an easy ai. All their games have a pretty simpleton ai though. I haven't played one yet that impressed me.

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Post #: 16

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 4:28:17 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: L�tzow

To each his own. I hated Achtung Panzer for it's atrocious UI and can just recommend to play the demo before purchase.

Yeah me too, most horrible ui I've ever seen. Even Schwerpunkts games has a better UI than achtung Panzer.

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Post #: 17

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 7:49:49 AM

Missouri_Rebel

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From: Southern Missouri
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aaa, did you buy the game or play the demo? Would you consider giving it another go because I had the exact same reaction when I first started it up? I couldn't gain my bearings (sp?) I quickly shelved it after hastily placing my troops, a rather tedious process. Only after I decided to 'learn' the game did the UI become acceptable. Since then I realized how deep and immersive the game actually is. In one late evening battle my units rode tanks into the outskirts of a town only to be discovered by a forward unit which let off a flare. All hell broke loose shortly after that. The AI actually uses different colored flares to signal things like retreating etc. I managed to fight my way into town where the battle ended for the day.

The next day I took up positions in some vacant trenches (they are actual 3-d trenches that carry over in this game and not spots on the map. You can also construct them) An enemy artillery rolling bombardment went off that rocked the town, visibly destroying and damaging the terrain and houses. Bomb craters are also 3-d and stay throughout the campaign. The enemy pushed on and I was barely able to hold them off until the next day. The weather worsened to a blizzard and some reinforcements finally arrived and I was able to advance partly through the town for the next battle. etc

Where the game lacks is the infantry model as I stated before. Not quite the control that CM has especially in relation to buildings. There can also be long down time with the huge maps in trying to find the enemy, although that was mostly early on when I didnt know what to expect. The weather effects are incredible in that during big storms the trees really bend down and look real. The shadows change on the men as the day goes on, infantry on tanks get bumped about etc. A ton of immersion that just gives you a WoW moment many times. Heck, tracked units will throw their tracks at times and the crew will get out and attempt to repair them. Crew bail burning tanks on fire and the incredible dynamic lighting lights up the area in their agony. Ammo stores explode after some time, often throwing parts of the AFV's around.

The game is so much more than the UI that the Russian/Ukrainian developers have amassed. It is clunky no doubt, but to give up on the game because of it is a real shame. To me what is far worse is the patching process and the language barrier of the developers.

mo reb

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 12/19/2013 8:51:48 AM >

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 9:24:43 AM

Agathosdaimon

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much like Achtung Panzer, but easier UI are the Theatre of War 2 series - Kursk, North Africa, Caen, Centauro - i like these as well, and Command Modern Air Naval Operations and Wargame ALB is pretty swell, i like its singleplayer and its decent enough with TW style dynamic campaign.

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Post #: 19

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 4:18:15 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

aaa, did you buy the game or play the demo? Would you consider giving it another go because I had the exact same reaction when I first started it up? I couldn't gain my bearings (sp?) I quickly shelved it after hastily placing my troops, a rather tedious process. Only after I decided to 'learn' the game did the UI become acceptable. Since then I realized how deep and immersive the game actually is. In one late evening battle my units rode tanks into the outskirts of a town only to be discovered by a forward unit which let off a flare. All hell broke loose shortly after that. The AI actually uses different colored flares to signal things like retreating etc. I managed to fight my way into town where the battle ended for the day.

The next day I took up positions in some vacant trenches (they are actual 3-d trenches that carry over in this game and not spots on the map. You can also construct them) An enemy artillery rolling bombardment went off that rocked the town, visibly destroying and damaging the terrain and houses. Bomb craters are also 3-d and stay throughout the campaign. The enemy pushed on and I was barely able to hold them off until the next day. The weather worsened to a blizzard and some reinforcements finally arrived and I was able to advance partly through the town for the next battle. etc

Where the game lacks is the infantry model as I stated before. Not quite the control that CM has especially in relation to buildings. There can also be long down time with the huge maps in trying to find the enemy, although that was mostly early on when I didnt know what to expect. The weather effects are incredible in that during big storms the trees really bend down and look real. The shadows change on the men as the day goes on, infantry on tanks get bumped about etc. A ton of immersion that just gives you a WoW moment many times. Heck, tracked units will throw their tracks at times and the crew will get out and attempt to repair them. Crew bail burning tanks on fire and the incredible dynamic lighting lights up the area in their agony. Ammo stores explode after some time, often throwing parts of the AFV's around.

The game is so much more than the UI that the Russian/Ukrainian developers have amassed. It is clunky no doubt, but to give up on the game because of it is a real shame. To me what is far worse is the patching process and the language barrier of the developers.

mo reb

I tried the game twice, once as a demo and then the full game as it was onsale at gamersgate for like $3.99 (they made an error in pricing it soon went back up to $9.99) and I just couldn't get my bearings like say a combat mission game an the setup was just awful. Games should be "easy" to understand not need a 500 page encyclopedia to understand how to play. I don't have that kind of time. 99.9% of all games I buy I can sit down and start playing immediately without scratching my head or having to read how to play.

Even Command Ops was easier and if you've played it I'm sure you know how complicated that game looks. But, everything was intuitive and the video tutorial was great for understanding the game.

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 12/19/2013 5:20:23 PM >

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Post #: 20

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 4:45:40 PM

Kuokkanen

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I say it again: I'm looking for TACTICAL scale games. With that Alchenar is right on target. Achtung Panzer I could consider when work takes less of my time, but Command Ops is out and recommendation for Distant Worlds goes wide by parsec.

And I ask it again: what are the newest games from Close Combat and Total War series?

[edit]
Any space games to be considered? Is Starfleet Command 2: Orion Pirates still best?

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 12/19/2013 5:58:47 PM >

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 6:50:07 PM

Missouri_Rebel

Posts: 3065
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From: Southern Missouri
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

aaa, did you buy the game or play the demo? Would you consider giving it another go because I had the exact same reaction when I first started it up? I couldn't gain my bearings (sp?) I quickly shelved it after hastily placing my troops, a rather tedious process. Only after I decided to 'learn' the game did the UI become acceptable. Since then I realized how deep and immersive the game actually is. In one late evening battle my units rode tanks into the outskirts of a town only to be discovered by a forward unit which let off a flare. All hell broke loose shortly after that. The AI actually uses different colored flares to signal things like retreating etc. I managed to fight my way into town where the battle ended for the day.

The next day I took up positions in some vacant trenches (they are actual 3-d trenches that carry over in this game and not spots on the map. You can also construct them) An enemy artillery rolling bombardment went off that rocked the town, visibly destroying and damaging the terrain and houses. Bomb craters are also 3-d and stay throughout the campaign. The enemy pushed on and I was barely able to hold them off until the next day. The weather worsened to a blizzard and some reinforcements finally arrived and I was able to advance partly through the town for the next battle. etc

Where the game lacks is the infantry model as I stated before. Not quite the control that CM has especially in relation to buildings. There can also be long down time with the huge maps in trying to find the enemy, although that was mostly early on when I didnt know what to expect. The weather effects are incredible in that during big storms the trees really bend down and look real. The shadows change on the men as the day goes on, infantry on tanks get bumped about etc. A ton of immersion that just gives you a WoW moment many times. Heck, tracked units will throw their tracks at times and the crew will get out and attempt to repair them. Crew bail burning tanks on fire and the incredible dynamic lighting lights up the area in their agony. Ammo stores explode after some time, often throwing parts of the AFV's around.

The game is so much more than the UI that the Russian/Ukrainian developers have amassed. It is clunky no doubt, but to give up on the game because of it is a real shame. To me what is far worse is the patching process and the language barrier of the developers.

mo reb

I tried the game twice, once as a demo and then the full game as it was onsale at gamersgate for like $3.99 (they made an error in pricing it soon went back up to $9.99) and I just couldn't get my bearings like say a combat mission game an the setup was just awful. Games should be "easy" to understand not need a 500 page encyclopedia to understand how to play. I don't have that kind of time. 99.9% of all games I buy I can sit down and start playing immediately without scratching my head or having to read how to play.

Even Command Ops was easier and if you've played it I'm sure you know how complicated that game looks. But, everything was intuitive and the video tutorial was great for understanding the game.

I can't argue with any of that. You're right, Command Ops is a great game. One that can be picked up quickly, but boy is it sure humbling if you don't know what you're doing. I picked it up recently after a sale and am sure glad I did. Appreciate the candor.

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Post #: 22

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/19/2013 10:21:18 PM

Alchenar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

I say it again: I'm looking for TACTICAL scale games. With that Alchenar is right on target. Achtung Panzer I could consider when work takes less of my time, but Command Ops is out and recommendation for Distant Worlds goes wide by parsec.

And I ask it again: what are the newest games from Close Combat and Total War series?

[edit]
Any space games to be considered? Is Starfleet Command 2: Orion Pirates still best?

Um... how long has it been since you looked at the genre?

The corpse of the Close Combat series is currently being animated by Matrix games in the worst possible way: Panthers in the Fog brings absolutely nothing to the table except a minor improvement in graphics in exchange for terrible gameplay changes. If you want a bit of a nostalgia trip then I believe common wisdom is that Last Stand Arnhem is the best of the remakes.

The latest Total War game, Rome 2, got a rough start from being released too soon. I haven't played it, but they're on major patch 8 already and it's apparently getting better every time.

Combat Mission is really the gold standard of the tactical wargame at the moment, nothing else even comes close to touching it. Demos of Shock Force (oldest of the newer games, Modern era), Normandy, and Italy are available from Battlefront so you can go check it out for yourself.

If you liked Starfleet Command then maybe Starpoint Gemini 2 (Steam Early Access) will be your thing. It's kind of a spiritual successor gone full 3D. I can't tell you much.

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Post #: 23

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/21/2013 4:44:22 PM

Kuokkanen

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Theatre of War 2 looks very promising. Except for one thing: I've been playing demo, and I have no idea how to get SPA shoot indirect fire. Help please

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Post #: 24

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/23/2013 6:21:09 PM

Kuokkanen

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I've played demo versions of some games. My thoughts about them...

Theatre of War 2
Some serious realism in play here: units see and shoot far, vehicles have many locations that can be damaged, soldiers have unique names, various skills, and personal inventory... But at least demo has no vehicles that can carry infantry and self-propelled artillery & mortars seem to need direct line of sight to target and friendly units can block it. Therefore Hummel operates like self-propelled SIG infantry gun. Maybe I'm missing something in here...?

Theatre of War 3
So far I have played tutorial and little more. Much the same as 2, but this has helicopter that carries infantry, and at least field howitzers can shoot without direct LOS to target. Points for those. Infantry squad can be selected with single-click instead double-click. Some issues remain: when I ordered squad man 105 mm howitzer (original crew got killed), some did not move along the trench but took short-cut outside of it in line of fire. Anyway this game could be winning choice for me.

Men of War: Assault Squad
This looks neat. Infantry can be easily ordered to take cover behind whatever. However this looks bit complex, maybe too complex for fast paced RTS game. Furthermore many traditional RTS elements seem to be in it: hit points, and medic can revive "dead" soldiers back to the fight. Still AI controlled teammates are is definite +: player doesn't have to take care of everything, but can focus on handful of units. I need take more time to understand this... Definitely in consideration.

Blitzkrieg 2
More traditional RTS: short LOS & weapon ranges, slow moving aircrafts, but tanks die fast and in drows. Less than 5 minutes in, and I lost my armored force of 4 tanks, 4 StuGs, and an armored car. Furthermore unit selection seems to be... quite limited.

Company of Heroes serie
I watched some YouTube videos. First impression: Dawn of War with WW2 armies in place of Imperial Guard. Can you give me reason to look into this any further?

Except some little issues, first 3 would make decent turn-based games, but could have little too much complexity and micromanagement for an RTS game: when player focus on one squad, others can get killed. And by now we should expect AI to be capable enough to throw grenades without player's micromanagement, but apparently is still not the case.

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/23/2013 8:57:20 PM

wodin

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Graviteam Tactics..no need for anything else..

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Post #: 26

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/24/2013 12:33:22 AM

aaatoysandmore

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Yeah there's one of those Theater of War 2's I'd recommend. The one with random battles...Caen something I think.

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Post #: 27

RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/24/2013 1:13:33 AM

Boomer78

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I haven't played Men of War, but from what I know it's pretty similar to Company of Heroes. Those two would be more arcade type action in a tactical RTS style. Capture points, building defense, unit upgrades, small unit actions, etc... If you're looking for something a bit more strategic in the grognard style you'll probably want to go with the Theater of war series.

I love the first COH and still play it from time to time. There's some websites that host player made skirmish maps. With those you can recreate Dday and a ton of other battles.

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/24/2013 3:19:49 PM

Kuokkanen

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Has anyone here played Talvisota: Icy Hell?

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RE: Recommend me RTS game - 12/27/2013 4:04:15 PM

Kuokkanen

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Didn't find demo for Close Combat: Last Stand Arnheim, so I downloaded and played Close Combat: Invasion Normandy. Game looks promising: I had more trouble with the AI than with the user interface. Some questions about the serie:
How much does Last Stand Arnheim differ from Invasion Normandy?
What's wrong with the Panthers in the Fog?
I literally didn't know what hit my ATG, but I saw STUG moving to cover half-way across the map. Any way possible to make units shoot at their maximum range without player giving command? (SPWAW calls it Opportunity Fire)

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 12/27/2013 5:04:33 PM >

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