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Changes to the A0 unit - 2/4/2003 11:54:53 PM   
OV-10Bronco

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Medina, Texas
Status: offline 		I am developing a small campaign. I would like the A0 unit to be armor instead of infantry on the initial purchase of the core units. Is it possible to do this? How?
Post #: 1
- 2/5/2003 1:33:36 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		Have you tried just clicking on ("deselecting") the A0 HQ unit in the buy screen? That may do it, but you may want to test it first to see if the next unit you buy gets A0 status.

Other than that, and probably safer, is to just "upgrade" the unit after the first battle. However, I would strongly discourage you from doing this. (I notice you are new to the Forum so I will assume you are new(ish) to SPWAW and I welcome you.) If your A0 dies, a whole lot of bad things start to happen to the morale of your men. If you change your A0 into that really cool Tiger, are your honestly going to be able to keep him out of the fighting? Or, will you cast him into the fray and risk getting him killed? If you are playing me and I see your HQ unit, I will go after him with a vengence. Your A0 is better off sitting near your On Board arty and an FO unit to help keep the arty in contact and dropping shells on the enemy.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 2
- 2/5/2003 1:42:07 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		IIRC you cannot de-select the A0 in the initial buy screen. At least I think I remember trying and it won't do it. I would not use that method in any case because when your A0 is built, it is an infantry unit, usually with higher infantry values and lower armored ones. If you upgrade that unit to armor, you are still stuck with the lowered armor values that do not translate to longevity on the battle field. As rbrunsman said, losing the A0 starts causing a lot of things to happen that you don want to have going on.

Have you tried the editor? That may be the best way since I believe you can jiggle the command values also. I'm a newbie at design so I might be off base on this. If so, I'm sure someone will point out the error in my thinking.

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 3
A0 OK! - 2/5/2003 2:38:53 AM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I gotta disagree here. I give my top guy a vehicle so he can drive around. You can always park him in a spot if you need him there, but if you need to move him to a critical sector, a vehicle is the way to go. So, if you use that line of thought, you might as well give him some protection like a light tank or whatever. I don't send my A0 into the fray willy-nilly, but sometimes exceptional moments require exceptional valour. Look at it this way, Murat went in with his cavalry. But, IIRC, he did get killed eventually. Hey, no guts, no glory.

The way I make my little sturmer into something different is by upgrading after the first battle. Actually, if I were posed with this same dilemma, I would just cheat and change his unit type in the editor. That also allows you to fiddle his numbers so they come out right. (I'd just do an even swap of Inf to Armour values) But I'm a low-down cheater, so don't expect much else from me.

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 4
- 2/5/2003 2:47:09 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I agree with the mobility point, but I usually just buy a 1/2 track and let him use that. Quick enough to get around and safe enough for some of the smaller oopses but not heavy enough to tempt me to have him lead the charge.

To each his own.

:)

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 5
Re: Changes to the A0 unit - 2/5/2003 11:23:25 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by OV-10Bronco
[B]I am developing a small campaign. I would like the A0 unit to be armor instead of infantry on the initial purchase of the core units. Is it possible to do this? [/B][/QUOTE]

No.
The player will always receive an A0 that is the HQ class unit

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 6
- 2/6/2003 12:03:10 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		If you kill an HT that is carrying the A0 unit, you won't lose the A0 unit. So, if you want mobility for the A0, that is the way to go. But, if you make the A0 unit a vehicle, then when it gets popped, you are really screwed. I really do not recommend making your A0 a vehicle class unit when playing against a human. Against the AI you can pretty much do as you please but don't fool yourself that you are being clever when in fact the AI is just stupid.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 7
- 2/6/2003 1:29:03 AM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B] the AI is just stupid. [/B][/QUOTE]

I guess that is what makes it a fair fight. ;)

I usually make my A0 a tank, and oh the best tank I can afford. This is especially useful for advance scens (keep up with the boys), but the value on the defense is sometimes greater than you might think. How many times has a rear area been attacked/raided. Mine has plenty. I few dudes standing around the maps and arty charts make for a 'soft' target to the enemy. A tank you have to close assault.

Don't mistake, my A0 never hits the 'knife's edge' except in emergencies. In over 6 years of SP play, I have fired my A0 at the enemy maybe 20 times. I keep him safe and he gets his own compliment of SPAA. Sometimes having that extra rally opportunity is what makes the difference in a sector.

Part of it is the fact that I usually play the Germans. Rommel fought through parts of '40 in a tank in the drive to the channel. He was cut off at one point and his men had to rescue him, but the morale effect was huge. On the Eastern Front, Gen von Strachwitz often fought in a tank on the front lines w/ his men. At Normandy an SS general and colonel (names escape me) set out on a motorcycle to recon the front. Heck, Alexander always rode in w/ his cavalry. This was the German way: lead by example. It did lead to horrendous leader losses but it also had its rewards. I just try to recreate that in SP to get the "feel" of it. I'm just not quite as bold as maybe I should be, if anything, given historical perspective. My guy hardly ever shoots or gets shot at. Besides I think I'm to the point where I don't care if I win anymore.

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 8
- 2/6/2003 8:22:47 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		Sturmpionier: You have much better self control than I do, that's for sure! If my A0 is in a Tiger or Panther, then he's just going to have to pop up and start sniping at the enemy. If I keep him "soft," then I don't have to worry about valor getting too great a hold on my senses.

MCLV is another matter entirely. Your A0 in that one is often in the thick of it, but the AI doesn't seem to pay undue (any) attention to him.

If you play me in PBEM and you present that nice A0 unit to me... well let's just say it would be a good piece of bait to use against me, because I'm going to try to kill him if I can, **** the losses.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 9
- 2/6/2003 8:33:25 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		because I'm going to try to kill him if I can, **** the losses.

Me, too. ;)

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 10
who's gonna know - 2/6/2003 10:03:39 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I understand computer dumbness, but how would a human opp know? Unless I change his name on the unit screen, it will still just pop up on the message screen "Tiger I firing" or whatever.

Let me give you a practical example. Right now I am fighting a battle in France 1940. My A0 is a 38t. My inf is a clearing a city on a river. My inf is advancing w/ panzer support right behind. My A0 is parked in a sqaure about a block behind the main line, w/ a platoon of 3.7 AA around him. He is in good shape. Like I said, close enough to the front to understand the situation, but not necessarily on the firing line. I know SP doesn't model the morale effect of having the top guy nearby. I just like it for realism.

Maybe a real-world example would help. A pal o mine just finished officer's armor school at Ft. Knox. His big beef with comp commanders was that they were too far to the rear and had to be on the "G******ed radio all the time" (his words not mine) to find out the situation. And these are company commanders, not bataillon commanders.

Lastly, so what if he gets whacked and you lose because of it? Guderian always preached being at the front for his subordinates and he was no exception himself. For me it is sometimes just as much fun to come back on your shield as with it.

Also, I don't know if it is self-control to not get him involved. Sometimes I forget he is there. Part of it, going waaaay back to the original post on this thread, depends on what kind of campaign you want to try to emulate. I am usually playing large, mixed force types of campaigns. If you have a core of say, a reinforced inf company, then a tank is out of the question.

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 11
Tank AO - 2/7/2003 12:45:28 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		Here is how i set my ao up. I give him a ht to ride around in. Also i assign him a sec of armored cars and sec of light tanks for protection. He is then able to get closer to the action. Also when the enemy is in rout, he can maybe get some exp kills. I really like him riding in the command car but this affords him hardly any protection.;)

_____________________________

Robots wear armor for skin.Grunts wear skin for armor.

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 12
- 2/7/2003 1:48:19 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I think Redleg and I are just trying to convey that you better be careful with the A0 when you play a human.

In general however, I think he serves better trying to keep those sissy arty boys paying attention and "in contact" so that you can get suppression when you need it.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 13
- 2/7/2003 2:02:17 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Sturmpioneer, A lot of us that have responded have megacampaign experience. If you haven't tried one, then you might not understand how we carefully guard our A0, given the HUGE amount of time one can sink into one of these things. (Granted it's fun time but having your future capabilities restricted by losing Hauptmann Vebber is too much to even contemplate.)

If I'm just doing a single battle I don't sweat it so much.

:D

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 14
A different beast entirely - 2/7/2003 3:55:38 AM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I had wondered if this was an apples and oranges kind of conversation!!

Have not played the MC's so I can't comment on that. I would guess from earlier posts that a focus of some of the battles would be to expose the problems that come with losing your leader in battle. "Force morale broken" et al...

Can't speak from experience here. The only question I have with relation to how to 'go about it' in SP still relates to survivability. In the game you get no penalty for having your arty tables and typewriters in your Tiger rather than on a table at your tent. Wouldn't that lead us to conclude that a tank might be more survivable parked near the arty park when the unexpected breaks through the treeline? I'm not trying to suggest, it just seems more logical that way to me. I am still remember one of WBW's scens from Arras where Rommel's staff is represented as tooling around in one of their staff behemoths.

To each his own. My set up is much closer to Robot's. I am very much used to the user-generated camps where leader loss isn't permanent (or at least OKH sends me a new one.) Maybe OKH should send me a new user (preferably with better numbers.) :p

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 15
- 2/7/2003 3:59:15 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I highly recommend that you get MCLV while it is still (barely) available. Like you, I like to play the German side (sorry Jess) and this one is an absolute hoot to play.

:D

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 16
- 2/7/2003 6:30:06 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim1954
[B]I highly recommend that you get MCLV while it is still (barely) available. Like you, I like to play the German side (sorry Jess) and this one is an absolute hoot to play.

:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Absolutely!

If I lose Vebber, I think I'll cry. He's already been injured once and I got a royal ***-chewing for it by Command.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 17
- 2/7/2003 6:35:42 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		If you change your A0 unit's type, do you lose any of his abilities that are uniquely A0? Also, is there a chance you'll lose his radio if you change him to something that normally doesn't have a radio? What about one with a random check, will you lose it then?

I'd love to change him to a Cavalry unit or a Spec Ops unit for the mobility in both cases and to a lesser extent why I want to change him to an SNLF squad: More men=not only more firepower when fired at, but more bullet sponges. (It's an extension of the 'Look out sir--AUGH!!' rule. ;))

_____________________________



Newbies!!
Wild Bill's Tanks at Munda Mini-Campaign. The training campaign for comb

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Post #: 18
- 2/7/2003 11:12:38 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		If you upgrade your A0 in a campaign I don't think you lose any of the inherent traits of the A0 unit. I've done it alot in Computer Generated Campaigns and there were no ill effects. Keep in mind, IIRC, you get his skills as they are (e.g. usually a low armor command skill) so if you change him to an armored unit, he won't be very good at it. That rule applies to all units where you switch their class (i.e. inf, AT, or armor).

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 19
mistake - 2/7/2003 11:16:18 PM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		Sorry bronco made mistake. Thought i was posting to your thred. Did not want to start a new thred on same topic. Hit wrong button.:o :o :o :confused:

_____________________________

Robots wear armor for skin.Grunts wear skin for armor.

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Post #: 20
Changes to the A0 unit - 2/8/2003 3:21:21 AM   
OV-10Bronco

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Medina, Texas
Status: offline 		Wow, What a respone. Several points to make:
1) Deselecting on the buy screen will not work, although if there is ever a SPWAW 7.2 this would be a nice option. Upgrading the A0 unit after the first battle works poorly. The low armor command values of the formally infantry A0 unit lower his chances of hitting anything considerably.
2) I am well aware of the disasterous consequences of loosing the A0 unit. Although I am new to this forum I have been playing SP for about 6 years and like many of you I have spent hundreds of hours with this outstanding game. Usually, when playing a campaign I try to kill off my A0 unit late in the first battle when I know I will get a DV. Prior to the second battle I upgrade him to armor. This works well, armor command values are correct and all the special chacteristics of the A0 unit still work. The only thing strange is he is usually just a Lt.
3) Editor will not work for a campaign. Works great for individual scenario.
4) If I am playing a human the computer will not tell you he is my A0 unit, you will only be told he is a Tiger or whatever type of unit I have changed him to. If he is not changed you would be told he is the German HQ unit. By changing him I actually limit your information.
5) I can't comment on using this tactic on the mega campaign. I purchased LV primarily to get SPWAW 7.1. I was very disappointed, the CD matrix sent had version 7.0 on it although 7.1 had been out for some time. I got a friend to download 7.1 as I have no internet connection at home and no downloads allowed at work. After upgrading to 7.1 LV still crashed, often after a battle was completed. Usually the save would crash when it was loaded. When I got to the third battle and it crashed I gave up on LV rather than start at battle one again. Matrix sold me an imcomplete and buggy product. I should not have to go online and download patches to make the game work. This experience has prevented me from purchasing Uncomman Valor.
6) The campaign I am developing is for a core force of about 8 tanks, one mech infantry company, and a few mech arty. This force is acting as a "fire brigade". A force of this size would probably be commanded by a senoir captain or a major tank dirver, rather than a Col. with a staff and tent.
Thats my thoughts on the matter, thanks for all the responses

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 21
Re: Changes to the A0 unit - 2/8/2003 5:05:04 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by OV-10Bronco
[B]5) Matrix sold me an imcomplete and buggy product. I should not have to go online and download patches to make the game work. This experience has prevented me from purchasing Uncomman Valor.[/B][/QUOTE]

Hey, Buddy? That's par for the course these days. As games get more complex, they take more and more beta-testing to get the bugs worked out. Unfortunately, the concept of the "Free, Open Beta" has gone the way of the dinosaur for way too many companies. So what happens?

There's Alpha Testing, usually in-house stuff. Then there's Beta Testing, which is (in most cases) either pay-to-test or has entry requirements, both of which limit the testing crowd to something way too small. So when a game (or most any software) comes out, you're buying a beta-test.

Frustrating. It's why my general advice is to never try anything with a version number less than n.3 unless you trust the development team. Though I have NO problem with patches. They're the best freakin' idea around, for there will always be bugs.

_____________________________



Newbies!!
Wild Bill's Tanks at Munda Mini-Campaign. The training campaign for comb

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 22
Re: Changes to the A0 unit - 2/10/2003 9:16:08 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by OV-10Bronco
[B]3) Editor will not work for a campaign. Works great for individual scenario.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Actually, I have used the editor mid-campaign. It works just fine. Here's how I try it.

Take your save file and rename it scenxxx and save to scen folder.

Open in editor and make your changes. save file

rename and re-save to old save file name in the save folder.

Re-load your saved game. It has always worked for me. It continues the campaign after the battle. (Even works in mid-turn!)

Good luck.

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to OV-10Bronco)
Post #: 23
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