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Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 8:21:55 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

Posts: 378
Joined: 12/2/2010
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Hi everybody,

I wanted to understand Trade, Resorts and their associated incomes, and here are my conclusions. Please fix if wrong.

First, I noticed two potential bugs:
Being studied - Resort stations won't create bonus income with your own population : save
- Trade value on the diplomatic screen will sometime never update : save

Then :

- All values, on all screens, are annual. Basically, if nothing changed for one full year, that would be the impact on your budget. Except for Pirates protection deals which are monthly!

- Cashflow (top-right) is an instant view on ("Annual Income" - "Annual Expenses")

- Bonus income (top-right) is ("Space Port Income" + "Foreign Trade Bonuses" + "Resort Income"). It is reset every Jan.01

- Space Port Income is the "Commerce Center" bonus. Everytime a resource is reserved in one of your station with a Commerce Center, you get this bonus (based on the price of the reserved items). If the freighter is destroyed before taking the resource, you still keep the money.

- Space Port Income is also the money paid by the private sector to build ships in your Construction Yards. Since both values are summed (Commerce and Yards), it's not possible to tell the amount you get from each.

- Foreign Trade Bonuses is the "Free Trade Agreement" and "Mutal Protection Pact" bonuses. Everytime you or your partner buy a resource from a foreign station, you will get 20 or 30% (when maxed out) of the value of the bought items.

- The Trade value displayed on the Diplomacy Screen is last year's full monetary value of these exchanges (which you get 20 or 30% of). Note: it's buggy in current's version.

- You don't own the resources, the private sector does. You just tax resources movements and buy the resources when you build a ship or refuel it.

- Every-civilization trades with all the other civilizations by default, unless at War or Trade sanctions are imposed. The "Free Trade Agreement" is just a monetary bonus for both partners in Trade but won't change the amount of trade done. The AI won't favor your partners.

Being studied - Resort bases ...

There. I hope this helps :)

PS: Trading Super Luxury Resources with a Trade partner is $.$

< Message edited by OzoneGrif -- 5/28/2014 1:13:17 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 8:40:05 PM

pycco

Posts: 345
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the income shown is yearly but it reports changes every 27 days i believe.

resort stations because of the way income is reported wont show up regularly unless you have a huge resort chain.
bonus income i believe is mainly from civilian sector buying stuff from the state sector.(might be wrong)

(in reply to OzoneGrif_slith)

Post #: 2

RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 8:44:15 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

Posts: 378
Joined: 12/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

the income shown is yearly but it reports changes every 27 days i believe.

I tried to understand how and when it is updated, and came to the conclusion it's totally random.

quote:

resort stations because of the way income is reported wont show up regularly unless you have a huge resort chain.

In the save I provided, that station was running for years and years. The resort income was still zero. Something's wrong captain.

quote:

bonus income i believe is mainly from civilian sector buying stuff from the state sector.

Oh right, I forgot to do this test. I'll try that and come back with a clear answer :)

< Message edited by OzoneGrif -- 5/27/2014 9:44:31 PM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 8:47:42 PM

Raap

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A resort station needs passengers to get income, which means passenger transport ships. Don't ask me about the specifics, I rarely seem to get them to make much myself so I've pretty much given up on them. They seem to be very profitable when they do work, but consistency seems to be a problem.

< Message edited by Raap -- 5/27/2014 9:48:09 PM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 8:52:26 PM

pycco

Posts: 345
Joined: 5/28/2013
From: United States of America
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OzoneGrif

quote:

the income shown is yearly but it reports changes every 27 days i believe.

I tried to understand how and when it is updated, and came to the conclusion it's totally random.

quote:

resort stations because of the way income is reported wont show up regularly unless you have a huge resort chain.

In the save I provided, that station was running for years and years. The resort income was still zero. Something's wrong captain.

quote:

bonus income i believe is mainly from civilian sector buying stuff from the state sector.

Oh right, I forgot to do this test. I'll try that and come back with a clear answer :)

no, im 100% sure it not random the days in the month is higher than 27.

resorts have to have passengers to make $$, which means you have to have friends that know where it is and can reach it. takes some practice to get this part right. try giving all friendly race you territory map.

(in reply to OzoneGrif_slith)

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 8:52:28 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

Posts: 378
Joined: 12/2/2010
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quote:

A resort station needs passengers to get income

The station in my save has 500k passengers. I'll keep it running for a while to see if the bonus appears.

quote:

bonus income i believe is mainly from civilian sector buying stuff from the state sector.

Okay, Civilian ships built at a Space Port generates a "Space Port Income" and thus goes to the "Bonus Income" as well.

(in reply to Raap)

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 8:53:13 PM

pycco

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OzoneGrif

quote:

A resort station needs passengers to get income

The station in my save has 500k passengers. I'll keep it running for a while to see if the bonus appears.

quote:

bonus income i believe is mainly from civilian sector buying stuff from the state sector.

Okay, Civilian ships built at a Space Port generates a "Space Port Income" and thus goes to the "Bonus Income" as well.

like i said the reporting of resort income is finicky at best.

space port income is linked to selling of resources, tourists

< Message edited by pycco -- 5/27/2014 9:53:59 PM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 9:14:38 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

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5560k and still zero.

I'm testing the resort base with my own population, next test : try it with foreign population.

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 9:29:46 PM

Raap

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Would be really interesting if you could find the answer to the resort base stuff. Making those profitable might prove a nice boost to my economy.

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:07:31 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

Posts: 378
Joined: 12/2/2010
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quote:

(I'm not sure if the AI favors partners).

And I just confirmed that. The AI doesn't favor a trade partner, which is sad in a way.

Edit: what follows is wrong :(

Okay, Resort bases works ONLY with foreigners. Your own population can and will go there, but it won't generate money (bug?).
A basic Recreation Center will give you 2K per year for 100K tourists present onboard.
Which means a Resort base is useless deep inside your borders. You have to put it somewhere close to other civilizations.

< Message edited by OzoneGrif -- 5/28/2014 12:58:47 AM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:12:31 PM

Raap

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Actually, I just did a test myself. With 20K passengers, my resort income immediately jumped to 5K. Then another 20K arrived and it jumped to 8K. A short time later, without any new guests, it jumped to 10K. The passengers appeared to immediately reflect in the resort income, no noticeable delay. These were all my own passengers from my own colonies and passenger ships.

< Message edited by Raap -- 5/28/2014 12:13:39 AM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:17:06 PM

pycco

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cool beans thx for info

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Post #: 12

RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:20:59 PM

Raap

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Have you ever seen passengers actually leave the resort?

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:21:03 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

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Right, I just did a small modification to my test, adding a colony in the Resort base system... and the money instantly dropped to zero.

I have the feeling it's linked to the distance with your colonies maybe.

Edit: Or not, it rose again. Damnit!

quote:

Have you ever seen passengers actually leave the resort?

No, never. I continue my tests and randomness is strong with this one. I'm confused about Resort.

< Message edited by OzoneGrif -- 5/28/2014 12:26:59 AM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:29:06 PM

Raap

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Yeah, I've no idea about this. Looks like it's a one-way trip, ever-long vacation. I also can't tell if money keeps ticking in from existing 'customers' or if it's just the new guys that bring in the cash. I suspect the latter.

Looks like my two resort bases at ~30% scenery locations and which have maintenance costs of ~700 are netting me a decent 42K a year.

< Message edited by Raap -- 5/28/2014 12:43:03 AM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:51:32 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

Posts: 378
Joined: 12/2/2010
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quote:

I also can't tell if money keeps ticking in from existing 'customers' or if it's just the new guys that bring in the cash. I suspect the latter.

Not what I see. I've had years without incoming tourists, and still got the money. But it's awfully random.

I'm sorry I just don't understand. It just doesn't make sense.

If a developer could help clarify the Resorts, it would make them much more interesting in-game.

quote:

Looks like my two resort bases at ~30% scenery locations and which have maintenance costs of ~700 are netting me a decent 42K a year.

And mine at 100% scenery still gives zero.

< Message edited by OzoneGrif -- 5/28/2014 12:55:09 AM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/27/2014 11:59:32 PM

pycco

Posts: 345
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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3340484&mpage=1&key=resort%2Cincome�
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2477630&mpage=1&key=resort%2Cincome�
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3414758&mpage=1&key=resort%2Cincome�
some other topics about resorts and how they work nothing solid though, this has been a question for some times it appears.

can any one help with this?

< Message edited by pycco -- 5/28/2014 2:58:43 AM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/28/2014 4:14:43 AM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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This has always been shrouded in mystery, have not seen this question pop up for many moons though.

First off, I never use them, I could never get in the mindset of having tourists floating about in my empire getting shot at and the fact that it was at best, an unreliable source of income.

They do work, but as you have found, very temperamental (read drive me mental). IIRC though the tourist spot has to be within range of a good sized colony, black holes I think were the best to work with. Make sure that the resort base has more than one docking bay, a few recreation centers and much shielding and armor, pirates like to nuke these more than mining bases.

If I can find anything else that may be useful I will post it here.

Darkspire

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/28/2014 4:57:16 AM

pycco

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thank you so much,

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/28/2014 5:32:20 AM

Darkspire

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I am sure there was a bit more info out there on these but these two threads have a fair amount of info in them.

resort base empty

Resort Bases - How Far Is Too Far?

Darkspire

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/28/2014 5:39:32 AM

hewwo

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Ha, good questions all around. I tend to build them sometimes, just because I can. But no idea if they actually do anything.

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/28/2014 12:33:02 PM

Raap

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Having just 4 of them is netting me well over 100K a year right now, so they're definitely not useless. They're also pretty much fire-and-forget, since constructors will autobuild them and civilian sector will autobuild passenger ships and fill them up. But yeah, I don't know if I've just been lucky this time around. It's happened to me to earlier that I've made practically no cash from them.

I was careful this time around to put all the beneficial components on it though, i.e. medical station, recreation, etc.

< Message edited by Raap -- 5/28/2014 1:36:43 PM >

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/28/2014 1:05:38 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

Having just 4 of them is netting me well over 100K a year right now, so they're definitely not useless. They're also pretty much fire-and-forget, since constructors will autobuild them and civilian sector will autobuild passenger ships and fill them up. But yeah, I don't know if I've just been lucky this time around. It's happened to me to earlier that I've made practically no cash from them.

I was careful this time around to put all the beneficial components on it though, i.e. medical station, recreation, etc.

How far from a colony? Same sector etc.

What type of location? Black Hole, planet etc.

Darkspire

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RE: Trade and income explained? - 5/28/2014 1:28:04 PM

Raap

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I'll compile a list. The income is consistent too; it's either similar as or higher than the previous year, though they're making new resort bases too.

Month 12, day 28. Resort Income: 129K.

Resort bases: 6

1. Location: Neutron Star. SB: 37%. Passengers: 1700K. Uninhabited system, one colony short distance away.
2. Location: Black Hole. SB: 63%. Passengers: 2800K. Uninhabited system, nearest colony half a sector away.
3. Location: Barren Rock Moon. SB: 0%, ruin on planet. Passengers: 280K. Inhabited system.
4. Location: Volcanic planet. SB: 27% from ruin. Passengers: 200K. Same system as #3, inhabited.
5. Location: Neutron Star. SB: 58%. Passengers: 500K. Uninhabited system, nearest colony short distance away.
6. Location: Neutron Star. SB: 40%. Passengers: 380K. Uninhabited system, nearest colony short distance away.

They were made in the order they appear in the list. First #1 and #2, then #3 and #4 some years later, then #5 and #6 much later. It's immediately obvious that those in the inhabited systems are not as attractive as those in neutron stars/blackholes; 5 and 6 were made much later, yet have already surpassed their population. The scenery bonus probably accounts for some of that, but not all of it I think. The first four alone were enough to net over 100K a year; given the low population of #3 and #4, I assume most of that income came from the first two.

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Post #: 24