** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1

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** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/4/2014 3:56:06 PM

Icemania

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Remember that this thread will be full of spoilers ...

Fire away!

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/4/2014 4:27:50 PM

Icemania

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Don't expect any help from me!

And yes you can win it ...

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/4/2014 11:31:27 PM

Raap

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The silvermist trick at the start was very neat; the main colony/system was effectively lost from the get go. I had to restart a couple of times due to no helium on the minor colony and questionable civilian ship behavior leaving me without resources to build new ships.

Ended up building a space port with no shields and generators(those require lots of helium) on the minor planet, which let me save enough helium to produce new civilian sector ships. Low population isn't ideal in the start, but I got lucky(?) by finding a Zenox colony fairly soon with a large population of them and some, quite frankly, ridiculous bonuses once I colonized them. Think they gave me like -40% ship maintenance, huge research bonus, +50% colony income, etc. They also had a ridiculous population growth of 30-40%, which had me regain the lost homeworld population in no time. No idea what happened there. Editor stuff?

Anyway, after that it became a cakewalk. The Sol Dominion managed to keep up for a while, but when I quit after 4-5 hours we were at war and I was at 1.3 million firepower and they had fallen down to ~300k. No one else were higher than 100k, so I'm fairly certain I could have taken on the entire universe at that point.

But yeah, cool game. Kinda ruined by integrating those Zenox types though. Not sure if that was intended?

Oh, game was played with the new patch if that makes any difference.

< Message edited by Raap -- 6/5/2014 12:33:57 AM >

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 3

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/5/2014 3:26:03 AM

Icemania

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Good stuff Raap!

I initially set this up with no independents at all making it more difficult to get the bonuses and catch-up. I also had the other empires being slightly more advanced. However, I changed it as I was worried about making this first edition too difficult and scaring too many people away. The idea was to give the AI bonuses and along with a tough start see if I could make a Pre-Warp game more challenging.

So two questions:
(a) Would you like me to update the save file to the original design i.e. no independents and other empires slightly more advanced?
(b) Have you encountered the Shakturi yet who are an Empire on the top left of the map at game start? I've given them even crazier bonuses and they should be pretty angry with you.

(in reply to Raap)

Post #: 4

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/5/2014 11:17:32 AM

Icemania

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Okay I'll be updating the Save Game link tonight and will post when complete.

BTW this Game started with 1 colony ... not 2. The Silvermist invade, then you have no colony, just a Capital Ship and a Colony Ship ... Battlestar Galactica inspired ... but unfortunately the game went to the defeat screen!

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/5/2014 11:33:12 AM

Osito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

BTW this Game started with 1 colony ... not 2. The Silvermist invade, then you have no colony, just a Capital Ship and a Colony Ship ... Battlestar Galactica inspired ... but unfortunately the game went to the defeat screen!

I ran into a related problem when I tried to create a blank galaxy map as a starting point for a new map. You can't delete the last colony of your empire, otherwise it's game over and any attempt to modify the map soon causes a crash.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 6

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/5/2014 11:34:33 AM

Icemania

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Yeah it's a real pity because I thought it was a perfect way to start the Extreme Game of the Month!!!

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/5/2014 1:05:12 PM

Icemania

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NOW YOU WILL DIE!!!!

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/6/2014 10:17:05 AM

Icemania

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So Raap is very quiet now. Mission accomplished!

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/6/2014 1:12:08 PM

Raap

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Hah, just been busy. I'll give it a go tonight.

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/6/2014 4:58:50 PM

Icemania

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The Silvermist feasting after slaughtering your Homeworld ...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Icemania -- 6/6/2014 5:59:19 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/6/2014 7:48:33 PM

fierceking

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Tried this out.

Obviously the first planet is supposed to be lost. 2nd planet only has 800 million so I set it to 10% tax to get 4% pop boost. Scrapped all exploration ship that survived from first planet to minimize cost.

Built one explorer and 1 construciton ship on 2nd planet (now main).

Made sure to change tech priority to Logistics and going for the trade bazaar.
Made sure that the small port dont upgrade to medium port because you will run out of silicon. This allowed the private sector to build freighters and mining ships.
And made a mining station at tiny desert planet Anouhosh (or however you spell that one) which has silicon but can't be built because it needs silicon. Silicon seems to be the bottleneck. Getting silicon seems to be the key early on since there are no pirates for smuggling. Independent freighters continue to bring resources but no silicon.

Took a long time to get silicon. But after I completed the mining station, the Dhayut then blockaded the planet. So I built one defensive base. Construciton stalled since the planet is low on resource.

Military strength at 377 lol
Population is now 1.4 billion,
money is now negative,
Cashflow is also negative
but I kept tax rate at 10%

Looks like I will have to go defensive since I am way behind the insects so the plan is to...

1) Upgrade large port to 25 torpedos and removed all maxo blasters, added 30 fighter bays and 50 shields, lowered docking bays to 15, construction yard to 10 (to keep cost down since primary is defense of the planet)

2) change defensive base layout to 15 fighter bays and 15 torpedos and build 4 around the planet.

But right now no money, still no warp bubble and blockade is still ongoing so will report later on. The Dhayut can easily invade if they want to but they wont for some reason. That would end the game for me but they haven't attacked.

I think they key is slow growth with protection to key resources. Money is tight so the trade bazaar will be a massive boost.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 12

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/6/2014 9:43:29 PM

fierceking

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It's been 4 years gamewise (going as 4x) and still having resource shortages. Can't complete the 1st defensive base. Still stuck with small spaceport since the 1st defensive base is stuck on resource shortages.
Changed from Technocracy to Democracy to try to get more cashflow. Fired leader with crappy stats. Population now 2 billion.
Boosted tax to 40% to try to accumulate enough money so I could build the trade bazaar (cost 50,000). But another empire beat me to it (You said something about they being 1 or 2 techs advanced so that makes sense)
So going for the trade bazaar was a waste.

Independent freighters have stopped coming so I assume they are now all been invaded.

The Dhayut has not left and continue the blockade. One by one my mining and gas mining stations got sabotaged and all are now destroyed.
The mining ships and gas mining ships have stopped moving. So I'm assuming this planet doesn't replenish Caslon on the planetside like normal starting planets.
No resource coming in and no resource to make new mining stations so continuing the game is pointless.

The 2nd planet doesn't have the right resource to do this challenge you've made. The firepower of the other races are too extreme compared to what you have. The lowest is 20k+ firepower and right now the Shakturi is around 45k. My planet surviving up to this point is just luck. They should have invaded a long time ago.

I like hard challenges but this challenge seems to be set up so that there is no way to win. Basically I have to hope for a string of good lucks to survive.
- gas/mining stations not blowing up
- not getting attacked
- not getting blockaded
- trade bazaar not getting built by someone else

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/6/2014 9:51:33 PM

Raap

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Still alive. Had some problems with silicon shortages at first, but managed to get my stupid construction ship to build a mining station on that moon with silicon, so that's sorted. Spent 100K of my total 130K to fast forward research on warp drives, which completed and made my resource-life a lot easier. Then came the Dhayut blockade. Through clever diplomatic manipulations, I got them to stop the blockade and trade embargo and netted 500K in the process. Though more clever diplomatic negotiations, I netted another 1.5Mill. Hey, they're not playing fair(shakturi with free ship maintenance), so why should I?

Still concerned about slow research progress though. My plan, now that I've tons of cash, is to build the biggest space port the world has seen, so that even though my technology sucks it'll be able to hold its own against potential invasion fleets.

(in reply to fierceking)

Post #: 14

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/7/2014 12:08:47 AM

fierceking

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I didn't know we were allowed to cheat via tech trading. Anyways I reloaded and I know what you did.

So here's what I assume you did and what I just did. On the diplomacy screen...

I talked to the Shakturi and negotiated (trade sanctions to the Ancient Guardians) for 16 million (all of their money).
On the same diplomacy window, switched over to the Ancient Guardians and cancelled the trade sanctions I just did.

Then talked to Dhayut and negotiated for them to lift their trade sanctions on me by trade sanctioning the Ancient Guardians again + all of their money (2.5 million)
Back to Ancient Guardians and lifted my trade sanctions on them.

Did the same to Sluken - 2.8 million
Money now = 20.6 million

And then I assume with all my money I have to gift the bastards to keep them happy while I build my fleet slowly. And when money starts to run low...repeat process.

Not a fun game that one.

< Message edited by fierceking -- 6/7/2014 1:09:19 AM >

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/7/2014 12:30:53 AM

Raap

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Ye, it's fairly cheap. Not that it's a fair game in the first place. The only reason it would eventually be possible to win this game, even without the cash hack(which just makes victory come sooner rather than later), is because they never actually attack you. I've played for a few hours now and they never, for some reason, declare war. This despite constantly having -100 relationships. Not against me, and rarely against other empires.

If there's an empire with just one colony, they seem to just blockade it indefinitely rather than declare war and invade. In other words, you have all the time in the world to slowly build up(or skip the slow part with cash/diplomacy exploit), take out the smaller empires' (blockaded)homeworlds one at a time, and eventually end up with a large enough fleet and ground forces to take on the larger empires.

So yeah, not sure what's going on there. Obviously you'll be at their mercy for ages, but that doesn't really matter when they don't attack. And should they decide to attack, you'd be dead regardless of how you played to that point unless you already reached critical mass.

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/7/2014 7:17:25 AM

Icemania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fierceking
The 2nd planet doesn't have the right resource to do this challenge you've made.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fierceking
The firepower of the other races are too extreme compared to what you have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fierceking
I like hard challenges but this challenge seems to be set up so that there is no way to win.

I was hoping someone would say that!!!

Yes the game can most certainly be won.

Early Game Resource Tips
1. Build a custom very simple Medium Spaceport with 10 Energy Labs to get Energy Research going. Getting larger ships and Warp is even more essential than usual.
2. Check your cargo at the colony and plan accordingly. I built one Super Speedy Explorer to explore the system, 2 State Mining Ships (send to Silicon and Steel source) and a State Gas Mining Ship (sent to Helium source) to start with .... they have enough Caslon to get around your system. These initial State Miners had extra thrusters and limited cargo bays to get a small amount of key stock back quickly. They were retrofit once Size 230 was available with more Mining Engines / Gas Extractors / Cargo Bays and after that retrofit with Warp Drive. At Size 300 they were upgraded to more Cargo Bays. Once Warp was available I upgraded the State Mining Ships then build some 6 Explorers and 3 Construction Ships with no resource shortages.
3. I designed Private Ships such that they were too big to build and only AFTER Warp Field Precursors were available I set them to a buildable size with Warp Drive. Otherwise you'll probably end up with resource shortages and a bunch of Private ships looking to Refuel with no Warp distributed around your home system.
4. Exploration for Strategic Resources is key. Don't retire your State Mining Ships too early. Plan what Mining Stations you build.
5. Chromium shortages can be resolved by redesigning your ships and designs to ensure Chromium is not used until you find a source...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap
Through clever diplomatic manipulations, I got them to stop the blockade and trade embargo and netted 500K in the process. Though more clever diplomatic negotiations, I netted another 1.5Mill. Hey, they're not playing fair(shakturi with free ship maintenance), so why should I?

Yeah unfortunately it's not possible to turn this off and avoid those Exploits, otherwise I would have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap
Obviously you'll be at their mercy for ages, but that doesn't really matter when they don't attack. And should they decide to attack, you'd be dead regardless of how you played to that point unless you already reached critical mass.

It is interesting that the AI does not Declare War despite setting the maximum negative race bias! The only way I can see around this is to really get into using Events for future Games of the Month as was done with the Ancient Galaxy Storyline. I'm hoping others in the community have some awesome plans here ...

Even worse for the AI ... I went on the offensive in 2113/4 with a total firepower of 173 and survived. When I declared war on one, two others joined in. It would have cost about 12M for peace at that point. I immediately invaded and took 5 of their worlds and as a result two of the three were prepared to go back to a peaceful relationship for <10k. The third I paid off as I didn't attack any of their worlds.

And now I have 4 sources for Chromium ... the last strategic resource that I needed.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Icemania -- 6/7/2014 8:34:31 AM >

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/7/2014 11:01:11 AM

Raap

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That's a neat start. I only tried once and didn't get out nearly as quickly. Most of the beginning years were spent watching civilian ships slowly move across the system while I desperately tried to solve my resource problems which prevented me from building/upgrading ships and stations.

About the war thing, a trigger would definitely be a lot better. How was the aggression slider set though? Maybe increasing that one would ensure they'll actually attack?

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 18

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/7/2014 12:10:47 PM

Icemania

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State Mining Ships help massively in this game.

The Aggression Slider was Restless and I felt it was a catch-22 to try to avoid the traditional die in 5 minutes or win the game. If I set to Unstable/Chaos along with the massive Bias file changes then it was probably die in 5 minutes a lot. The contrast is as you've described, they aren't aggressive enough. That said, as you become more powerful they start to covet your colonies etc so the game has some monster battles ... but it requires a lot of time to get there ... so scenarios are the way to go as we saw with the Ancient Galaxy Storyline.

The other factor is Ship Design. The template files have no conditional logic but they could be customised a lot for specific scenarios. Check out this whopper which would suit an evolved Return of the Shakturi:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Icemania -- 6/7/2014 1:23:11 PM >

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RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/7/2014 2:20:24 PM

Icemania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fierceking
I talked to the Shakturi and negotiated (trade sanctions to the Ancient Guardians) for 16 million (all of their money).
On the same diplomacy window, switched over to the Ancient Guardians and cancelled the trade sanctions I just did.

Then talked to Dhayut and negotiated for them to lift their trade sanctions on me by trade sanctioning the Ancient Guardians again + all of their money (2.5 million)
Back to Ancient Guardians and lifted my trade sanctions on them.

Did the same to Sluken - 2.8 million
Money now = 20.6 million

Are you playing 1.9.5.2? Once I put trade sanctions on the Ancient Guardians, that's it, I can't cancel the trade sanctions. I don't know what the time period set for the Ancient Guardians is yet but it's looong!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry Edwards
- fixed AI empires starting and then quickly ending Trade Sanctions - now always honor minimum time period

< Message edited by Icemania -- 6/7/2014 3:20:54 PM >

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Post #: 20

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 6/8/2014 9:03:17 AM

Icemania

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Three decades after watching in horror as the Silvermist destroyed my homeworld, the Return to Gundagale was a cause to celebrate ... !!!

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< Message edited by Icemania -- 6/8/2014 10:03:50 AM >

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Post #: 21

RE: ** SPOILERS ** EXTREME Game of the Month 1 - 8/6/2014 11:44:35 PM

Vardis

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Thanks for the scenario. I learned some new things out of necessity, and in one case accident. Had to restart a few times to avoid the private section exhausting resources, but they can't build anything if you obsolete all their ship designs and switch the design to manual. Also found out that scientists apparently are only allowed to be at the capital when not at a starbase, so changing the capital right away, and then retiring the starbase (I figured I'd give the mist less to feed on) led the ultra genius scientist teleporting to the other location. Then changing to democracy (or your government of choice) means keeping him after the leader is killed.

I've been doing Democracy over Technocracy when playing the Quameno lately anyway, since invariably my leader will be replaced at some point in my games, even with the lower chance of that happening with Techocracy. Aside from one case where a new demoralizing foreign spy scientist got picked and turned into a leader with great stats, the game seems to like taking the super scientist it starts with as the new leader, although I could've just been having bad luck in that regard.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 22