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I've never seen this before... - 11/29/2014 2:18:29 AM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Although I have played previous games as the Central Powers I thought I would give the Entente a try...I had just finished the September 3rd turn and my forces were deployed as shown...I had the Germans isolated in Antwerp, had landed a British unit near Calais and had another waiting to disembark.
Then I ran the turn and strange things happened. First, my British infantry and French cavalry near Antwerp just disappeared and more interestingly the boundary of what appears to be Belgium suddenly extended itself to Calais and a new one hex neutral country suddenly appeared just north of Metz...if I try to move into it I am asked if I want to declare war.
I'll put the September 17th positions in the next post.




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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/29/2014 2:20:00 AM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Then this happened...any explanation would be appreciated.





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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/29/2014 3:46:23 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		pacwar,

What happened is that Belgium went neutral after it's NM went to "0". Because it went neutral all former friendly units were repatriated their respective country production panels. If either CP or Entente enter Belgium hexes that would be a declaration of war by the moving party. Unlikely in SP would CP move into a neutral country (what is left of it, CP claims the rest), at least I have never seen it happen, so you are the only one who "likely" would violate Belgium's neutrality. Where Belgium has no production capability, if you invaded, they would be unable to fight back, more than likely surrender, especially if you capture the remaining Belgium hexes.. Sometimes it can be to your advantage, cause the German infantry (Antwerp is marooned), to go around neutral hexes to take out Brussels then invade Belgium to capture Antwerp. Keep in mind when you place a repatriated unit from the production panel, you can move that unit on the same turn. Placing an English unit in London for instance is allowed to disembark the same turn or fight the same turn, or move to it's fullest extent.

PS: I might be wrong about one thing: If you violate Belgium neutrality, German controlled Belgium Capital and city hexes may revert back to Belgium again, thus they would have production capability.





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< Message edited by operating -- 11/29/2014 5:03:50 AM >

(in reply to pacwar)
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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/29/2014 4:23:41 PM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Thanks for the explanation...which I understand to a point...I get Belgium going neutral when production value goes to 0 and the issue of repatriation but I don't exactly get why the Germans get to keep the are they occupy. Not a big deal at this point I think I can adjust as necessary. Are there any more surprises playing as the Entente that I didn't experience when I was the CP?

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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/29/2014 5:01:32 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pacwar

Thanks for the explanation...which I understand to a point...I get Belgium going neutral when production value goes to 0 and the issue of repatriation but I don't exactly get why the Germans get to keep the are they occupy. Not a big deal at this point I think I can adjust as necessary. Are there any more surprises playing as the Entente that I didn't experience when I was the CP?


Basically the Belgians surrendered, to what would be called an "unconditional surrender" (take what you have left and lick your wounds). The Belgians, did not even have an army remaining to be of a threat to CP. Even if you had a Belgian army with "0" NM, Belgium still would of been forced to surrender, it's armies frozen in place. As far as the Germans go, "To the victors goes the spoils of war", they keep what they fought for, they have "no reason to give up their gains". There is no diplomatic settlements/negotiations included in this game. In a MP match CP could declare war once again on Belgium till there is no unoccupied Belgium hexes, I've seen that before in Belgium and in a number of other countries.

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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/29/2014 5:04:43 PM   
suprass81

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 4/23/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pacwar

Thanks for the explanation...which I understand to a point...I get Belgium going neutral when production value goes to 0 and the issue of repatriation but I don't exactly get why the Germans get to keep the are they occupy. Not a big deal at this point I think I can adjust as necessary. Are there any more surprises playing as the Entente that I didn't experience when I was the CP?


When you force any nation to surrender you take control of the terrain you already control. Only enemy's units are removed from the "oryginal" terrain that you don't control.

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Post #: 6
RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/29/2014 8:36:06 PM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		That makes sense...as the CP player when I accepted Russia's surrender there were no Russian allies on their soil so I never experienced the process....and I understand why the Germans, as the aggressors get to keep what they captured but why would the allies voluntarily withdraw from their allies lands when that ally just pulled the rug out from under them...particularly if the ally had no way to enforce their request.

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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/30/2014 12:03:06 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pacwar

That makes sense...as the CP player when I accepted Russia's surrender there were no Russian allies on their soil so I never experienced the process....and I understand why the Germans, as the aggressors get to keep what they captured but why would the allies voluntarily withdraw from their allies lands when that ally just pulled the rug out from under them...particularly if the ally had no way to enforce their request.

I think I know what you are talking about now... When your turn started, was Belgian NM at "0"? Not all players pay attention to NM %s right away. When it is "0" there is practically nothing the allies can do about it, except to recapture a Belgian city immediately, that might of given Belgium a NM boost, thus staving off a surrender. Whereas, you could not, you should of changed your strategy in preparation for your next turn, in other words, a strategic retreat preempting the Belgian surrender (get off Belgian hexes), avoiding repatriated units and choosing a better location for disembarking English troops. It's rare for somebody to lose Antwerp so early in the game.

I'll have to guess you were attacking superior German units with your Belgians and getting slaughtered, as a result you did not have the time to repair units or create new units without a Capital under relentless attacks by CP. Ideally, Belgium should try to hold out till reinforcements arrive, even then don't attack unless the unit you are attacking is extremely weak.

(in reply to pacwar)
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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/30/2014 3:51:05 AM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Things were a little dicey for the first couple of turns after losing Antwerp but the AI must have gotten confused with so easy a time early on in Belgium...it subsequently adopted an "offense in the east" strategy, with the result as shown below. It's the November 26, 1914 turn and I've trapped three groups of Germans. The single unit northeast of Liege will be destroyed this turn, the Nancy, Metz, Strassburg triangle won't lost much more than another turn and the Antwerp/Brussels force is doomed. I've fought the Germans to a standstill along the Eastern Front and Serbia will hold out until early 1915. Unless something collapses in the East I should be able to threaten Berlin by New Years Day, 1915.




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RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/30/2014 7:09:30 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		On what # turn did you invade Belgium? Also, when you did so, did the Belgian city hexes show a change from German control back to Belgian control? I'm curious.. Do see a neutral Belgian hex next to Antwerp. When you invaded Belgium, beginning on your next turn, did it describe Belgium joining the CP, then say that Belgium surrenders in the events window?

(in reply to pacwar)
Post #: 10
RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/30/2014 6:55:18 PM   
pacwar

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I invaded on the September 17th turn...it did not appear that the cities changed from German to Belgium control. At the end of the turn the message was "Belgium joins the CP" and then "Belgium surrenders", but on the next turn there were still Belgium hexs highlighted and if I entered any of them the program asked if I wanted to declare war, to which I answered yes and at the end of that turn the same Belgium joins CP and Belgium surrenders message appeared.



(in reply to operating)
Post #: 11
RE: I've never seen this before... - 11/30/2014 10:54:23 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline
quote:

PS: I might be wrong about one thing: If you violate Belgium neutrality, German controlled Belgium Capital and city hexes may revert back to Belgium again, thus they would have production capability.

I was concerned about the above quote I gave you earlier. Thanks for the feed back!

(in reply to pacwar)
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