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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> UV among war

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UV among war - 3/20/2003 3:14:54 AM

SoulBlazer

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline

To start with, I apoligize if anyone thinks this note is out of place -- but a friend of mine who I was doing a short PBEM game with has decided to bail due to the upcoming war and it made it concerned enough about it to want to talk about it here. :)

Many of us live either in the United States, England, or Australia, nations which it now seems almost certain will be at war aganist Iraq in the next few days. (assuming the news reports saying Australian troops will join ours is still accurate). Regardless of my personal feelings about it, I stand ready to join with my countrymen in our hopes that is is a quick operation.

Is there anyone here who might have their playing or posting time affected due to the military operation? Does anyone forsee any possible problems? Is there anyone I should offer prayers for personaly who is now going into harm's way?

It seems strange to be playing a war game on the eve of a upcoming war. My desire to play UV has gone down a bit this last week with all the tension and the concern in the air, and the feeling that 'here I am, comanding vritual men in life or death situations, when it's going to happen soon in real life'. Maybe I'm not as much as a pure wargamer as the rest of you. :) And I'm not going to stop any of my PBEM games. I just wonder if I'm the only one feeling this way.

In another example that the cycle continues, many of us use the American 1st Marine Division in the game as they were used in real life -- to take Lunga and Tulagi. And now they are ready to be one the spearheading forces to go into Iraq.

After the September 11th attacks it took almost a week before I felt like actually PLAYING anything -- and even then it was just a simple game of Madden. I just kind of walked around in shock for most of that week anyway. I'm not forseeing any problems to that degree due to this upcoming war, but I wanted to say I would not blame anyone in the slighest if they did.

And to end on a slightly personal note -- I believe I speak for the vast majority of Americans when I extend a 'thank you' to those UV players who live in the UK or Australia for your upcoming support in this operation. True allies are always hard to come by, and as our nations did during the time period covered in UV, we will once again work together to rid the world of a threat.

Okay, soapbox over. :D

_____________________________

The US Navy could probaly win a war without coffee, but would prefer not to try -- Samuel Morison

Post #: 1

- 3/20/2003 3:33:24 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

I think it is natural for many of us wargamers to pause in our activities at the start of any war. Some of us might bury ourselves in news reports, some might be looking for other activities to calm the nerves, some might be digging out old copies of Gulf Strike...

I think that those involved in the military are the ones who fear war the most, as they know best what the true costs are.

It could be that some members of our community will be called away for a period. If so, I shall pray for their safe and rapid return.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 2

- 3/20/2003 3:56:01 AM

Full Moon

Posts: 201
Joined: 1/25/2003
From: Texas
Status: offline

Don't forget South Korea. They're sending troops too, even though only engineers.:)
I remember the day when the last Gulf War started in 1991. I was in the army then. It was January and was a very cold day.
I just hope the coming war is over with minimum casualties of soldiers and civilians.

_____________________________

"War is a series of catastrophes that results in a victory."
Georges Clemenceau

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 3

- 3/20/2003 4:35:57 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Does anyone know where we can get information about which troops, ships and planes are deployed where? Obviously much of that information is sensitive and thus unavailable to the general public. On the other hand, DoD *is* going to great lengths to provide more media access to the war this time around; that should result in pretty interesting reports on the tactical scale. But I'm especially interested in "operational-scale" information on the operation -- where is the 3rd Infantry deployed, where will the 101st drop, where are our carriers operating, that sort of thing.

And yes, I join in SoulBlazer in wishing good luck to the armed forces of all nations involved. And in hoping for a minimum of casualties, civilian and military.

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 4

- 3/20/2003 4:40:48 AM

Bulldog61

Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/23/2000
From: Aurora,CO
Status: offline

Try this site.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/

_____________________________

You can run but you'll die tired!

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 5

- 3/20/2003 5:08:41 AM

denisonh

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

Another site

[URL=www.iiss.org/iraqCrisis-more.php?itemID=2]http://www.iiss.org/iraqCrisis-more.php?itemID=2[/URL]

And just like the last time, I have friends over in the "sand box" gettting ready to do their jobs. I don't like it, and they don't like it, but it is the profession they have chosen. They will execute their tasks with the confidence and skill that have come from years of preparation and training.

Godspeed to them.

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 6

- 3/20/2003 5:13:01 AM

Mike_B20

Posts: 389
Joined: 2/13/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

I feel a lot of sympathy for the predicament the US people find themselves in at the moment.
They are damned if they do and are damned if they don't.

Personally, I'm growing tired of all the anti US rhetoric.
The US has made mistakes, particularly in not keeping Israel on as short a lead as possible. They are literally getting away with murder in Palestine at the moment.

As an Australian, I think a lot of the US and their contributions to the world. They've bailed the rest of us out of two world wars and the other contributions they've made to a better world are too numerous to mention.
Heck, I even love The Simpsons.

I feel that 9/11 put the world on notice of a whole new ball game and that subsequently the US knows that it is in dire peril.
Without some sort of attempt to shut down rogue states it is certainly only a matter of time before coordinated smuggled nuclear strikes on US cities.
The US is too open a society to have much of a defence.

I'm soo **** tired of all those stupid **** idiots sitting about in their dust bowl countries, reading their khorans, breeding like rabbits and spouting anti US rhetoric when not begging for western aid.

I do not want to sound racist or religiously bigoted but the way those **** terrorists have hijacked the muslim religon and tried their damndest to foment a religious war is sickening....and every US attempt to defending themselves gives those idiots more to work with.

_____________________________

Never give up, never surrender

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 7

- 3/20/2003 5:14:25 AM

SoulBlazer

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline

Wow, a non-American sticking up for us at least in part?

Someone give me some smelling salts -- I'm gonna faint! :)

_____________________________

The US Navy could probaly win a war without coffee, but would prefer not to try -- Samuel Morison

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 8

- 3/20/2003 5:24:17 AM

Full Moon

Posts: 201
Joined: 1/25/2003
From: Texas
Status: offline

Let's not go too far mates.
This is an international board.:)

_____________________________

"War is a series of catastrophes that results in a victory."
Georges Clemenceau

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 9

- 3/20/2003 5:50:55 AM

Spooky

Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike_B20
[B]

I'm soo **** tired of all those stupid **** idiots sitting about in their dust bowl countries, reading their khorans, breeding like rabbits and spouting anti US rhetoric when not begging for western aid.

I do not want to sound racist or religiously bigoted but the way those **** terrorists have hijacked the muslim religon and tried their damndest to foment a religious war is sickening....and every US attempt to defending themselves gives those idiots more to work with. [/B][/QUOTE]

I wonder why the biggest fund-raiser for the Islamic bigots - Saudi Arabia - is still one of the US best friends in the Middle East :rolleyes:

_____________________________

Visit Spooky's UV & WITP Fansite !

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 10

- 3/20/2003 6:11:59 AM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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I wonder where the USA was while the "true allies" fought against Germany in WW II ... Hmm, thats right, they were busy milking their cows ... I forgot ... :rolleyes:

Maybe if you hadn't bombed our troops then reacted like it was not your fault we'd be there again ... friendly fire? Only to the guy still standing it seems ...

Funny how you break your own treaties yet expect some dictator to act better ???

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 11

- 3/20/2003 7:11:07 AM

SoulBlazer

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline

Well, as a close friend of mine who has lived in Toronto all his life and does'nt like Canada very much has told me, basicaly, that in his view the country is "run by a bunch of bleeding heart liberals who are so busy trying to keep the country together they don't care about anything else."

Besides, I think we can do just fine without the tank and plane Canada has left in her military. :D

_____________________________

The US Navy could probaly win a war without coffee, but would prefer not to try -- Samuel Morison

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 12

Stop it now. - 3/20/2003 7:27:24 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

This is not AoW.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 13

- 3/20/2003 9:31:28 AM

Point Luck

Posts: 318
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: East Coast-US
Status: offline

[B]It seems strange to be playing a war game on the eve of a upcoming war. My desire to play UV has gone down a bit this last week with all the tension and the concern in the air,[/B]

Wow I was having some of the same thoughts; although I have continued to return my turns I find that the some of the excitement has be impacted by world event recently.

Even though I knew first hand what direction our government was heading for some time now, I truly had hoped that the other countries of the world would have applied far more pressure on Iraq then it has demonstrated, thus eliminating the need for US action.

[B]Is there anyone here who might have their playing or posting time affected due to the military operation?[/B]

Unfortunately the current situation in the US with the elevated security alerts has caused a significant increase in my work schedule and makes playing UV somewhat difficult. I find what 3 months ago to be a great diversion and great form of relaxation, today I find it hard to keep my focus.

Very disheartening because I had waited so long for a game like this. (Enough of a reason to bomb the snot out of Sadam)

I fully support our leaders decisions, all our troops and our allies

I would also to take this time to THANK all our allied nations for their support and I to pray for a swift end to this war and hope that casualties are minimum for all soldiers and civilians.

For all those with misguided beliefs of US motivation I know at the end of the prosecution of this war it will be demonstrated beyond a doubt that the dangers this man presented to the world will be very evident.

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 14

- 3/20/2003 5:09:30 PM

AmiralLaurent

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline

I play a BTR PBEM with a British soldier. We stopped the game on 11th February because he went to Koweit the day after. Hope he is fine, I had no news since.

That is one more reason for me to be against this war. If Saddam has no more mass destruction weapons, why attack him and not one of the other dictators that have them (North Korea for example, or Pakistan) ? And if he has mass destruction weapons, he will use them. And how many of young soldiers will die ? Not speaking of civilians.

AFAIK it has not be proven that Irak helped or not Al-Quaida. It has been proven that most of the men and money came from Saoudi Arabia and Egypt by legal channels.

But I approved the first move by the US forces. I hope that the first bomb killed or mained Saddam. He is the man to kill.

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 15

War has begun... - 3/20/2003 6:50:54 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

I must say that I was very surprised that war has begun is such fashion as it
did...

Instead of massive first strike to disable the Iraq we had, in essence, the
hastily try to kill Saddam. Would this be counter-productive (i.e. surprise
lost) in longer run we will see in future (though one has to agree that
"surprise" was not possible at all sine the attack was imminent anyway).

Also, apparently, Iraq fired several Scud ballistic missiles on Kuwait (and
coalition forces there). News agencies all report this but none of them
understood that this essentially means that this is the "smoking gun" proof.

Iraq should not have _ANY_ ballistic missile with range longer than 150 km
(and Scud have much more). All Iraqi ballistic missiles should have been
destroyed after 1991 and this is 100% proof that they cheated the world and
that US was very right to start this action.

Sadly many many nations didn't believe US government...

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 16

Good grief.... - 3/20/2003 8:28:58 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

All I can say "Rest In Peace, United Nations."

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 17

Re: War has begun... - 3/20/2003 9:10:42 PM

Spooky

Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Apollo11
[B]Hi all,

I must say that I was very surprised that war has begun is such fashion as it
did...

Instead of massive first strike to disable the Iraq we had, in essence, the
hastily try to kill Saddam. Would this be counter-productive (i.e. surprise
lost) in longer run we will see in future (though one has to agree that
"surprise" was not possible at all sine the attack was imminent anyway).

Also, apparently, Iraq fired several Scud ballistic missiles on Kuwait (and
coalition forces there). News agencies all report this but none of them
understood that this essentially means that this is the "smoking gun" proof.

Iraq should not have _ANY_ ballistic missile with range longer than 150 km
(and Scud have much more). All Iraqi ballistic missiles should have been
destroyed after 1991 and this is 100% proof that they cheated the world and
that US was very right to start this action.

Sadly many many nations didn't believe US government...

Leo "Apollo11" [/B][/QUOTE]

For the Western news agencies, Scud is the name for all Iraki missiles while Irak has some missiles within the 150 km range ... and it is probably some of those "150 km range" missiles that were launched towards Kuwait - so the name Scud is inappropriate.

And so it is probably not the "smoking gun" you are hoping :rolleyes:

_____________________________

Visit Spooky's UV & WITP Fansite !

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 18

- 3/20/2003 11:12:40 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

quote:

U.S. and Kuwaiti sources initially reported all the missiles as Scuds, but the Pentagon later said it believes they were al Samouds or some other type of missile.

quote:

In Baghdad, Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Al-Sahaf said he had heard a report that U.S. forces had downed a Scud. "But we don't have Scud missiles," he said.

Smoking gun?

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 19

- 3/21/2003 12:04:03 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

I heard this while watching session of British parliament and questions to
British minister of defence (I think it was him). I wasn't watching CNN... :-)

BTW, I know that it is not good for us here to enter political discussions (and
taking sides) because, after all, we are all here just UV fans who like to
play our game...

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 20

- 3/21/2003 12:29:22 AM

HawaiiFive-O

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline

Hear, hear. Let's can the rhetoric (on both sides) and discuss the game.

It is, after all, a game board.

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 21

- 3/21/2003 12:32:09 AM

Full Moon

Posts: 201
Joined: 1/25/2003
From: Texas
Status: offline

Yeah, let's discuss game not politics. We can discuss it in OT forum.:)

_____________________________

"War is a series of catastrophes that results in a victory."
Georges Clemenceau

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 22

- 3/21/2003 7:14:05 AM

Point Luck

Posts: 318
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: East Coast-US
Status: offline

[B]That is one more reason for me to be against this war. If Saddam has no more mass destruction weapons, why attack him and not one of the other dictators that have them (North Korea for example, or Pakistan)[/B]

The only people that are CLAIMING that Saddam doesn�t have WMD�s are the same countries that have been selling him Nuclear or other weapon technologies.

Listen the United States was ATTACKED by terrorists on 911. FACT. Iraq supports terrorists, has numerous terrorist camps in country FACT.

Now unless these camps are training some kind of Girl Scout terrorist squads or French troops these camps are a threat to the United States FACT.

Any country that supports terrorists shall be treated as an enemy. You question why don�t we Attack Saudi Arabia, or Iran or some other country. Take a look at what�s going on

First we need a solid base to operate from so we don�t have to go beg other countries to let us base our troops in to protect ourselves from crazed religious zealots.

You know like maybe some recently occupied country like Iraq or Afghanistan. OOP�s are those countries sort of like right next to Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan and Syria.

Gee I wonder how things will look to these wacko terrorists when we have to keep 50,000 or 60,000 troops in these countries while they rebuild.

I also think that the Iraqi and Afghan peoples wouldn�t mind the protection that these FORMER NATO troops could provide them, not to mention the money that these FORMER NATO troops and their families would spend in these countries instead of in Europe.

Then again any of our newfound buddies that helped us in these countries, that would want to come and live in the US, we�ll probably have a new building for them to move into since the former UN building should be vacant soon.

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 23

- 3/21/2003 8:11:35 AM

Full Moon

Posts: 201
Joined: 1/25/2003
From: Texas
Status: offline

Mod, please move this thread to OT forum.

_____________________________

"War is a series of catastrophes that results in a victory."
Georges Clemenceau

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 24

Wargaming nothing to do with War - 3/21/2003 8:15:36 AM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

To me, at least, War-Gaming has nothing to do with war, except that it was derived from the history of war. If there was some other human phenomena that was a greater, more prolific and more universal expression of competition than war, then we'd all be playing games that are from that (whatever "that" is) genre.

Some sports games come close, but wargaming is about mental competition, some history thrown in for added spice and comparison.

War is another thing entirely.

I have noticed the rate of turns (none from a couple for a couple of days) since events came to a boil. Not surprising, seeing as the Gulf War TV footage was almost compulsory viewing (who would have thought you'd see a real war on TV?? I remember my parents being amazed.).

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 25

- 3/21/2003 8:39:41 AM

Point Luck

Posts: 318
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: East Coast-US
Status: offline

[B]Scud is the name for all Iraki missiles while Irak has some missiles within the 150 km range[/B]

THANKS I was just ask that question I couldn�t figure out why such a big deal was being about AL- SAMOUND missiles when SCUDS where so much more of a problem in the last war.

I thought that they where two different missile systems and I couldn�t find any comparison info to determine the difference.

My fault for listening to NEWS BROADCASTERS

(in reply to SoulBlazer)

Post #: 26