What is the America's and Tripoli's air component?

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What is the America's and Tripoli's air component?

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What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/2/2015 11:32:10 AM

Rudd

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They are more aviation oriented with no well deck and other improvements for air operations, but all info basically states the same air complement as the LHDs.

Is the more room just for the F-35/Harrier swap and the CH-46/MV-22 swap or will they be able to handle more aircraft?

Post #: 1

RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/2/2015 3:28:00 PM

wild_Willie2

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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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So far as I know there is no open source data on the AC capacity of this design regarding the F-35B and MV-22.

W.

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RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/2/2015 3:36:22 PM

Mgellis

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This is what I was able to find out (interestingly, on Wikipedia)...

"These changes were required in order to operate the F-35B and MV-22, which are considerably larger than the aircraft they replace.[14] The typical aircraft complement is expected to be 12 MV-22B transports, six STOVL F-35B attack aircraft, four CH-53K heavy transport helicopters, seven AH-1Z/UH-1Y attack helicopters and two Navy MH-60S for air-sea rescue.[10] The exact makeup of the ship's aircraft complement will vary according to the mission. America can carry 20 F-35B and 2 MH-60S[10] to serve as a small aircraft carrier as demonstrated by LHD operations in Operation Iraqi Freedom."

So, two general loadouts...

12 x MV-22B, 6 x F-35B, 4 x CH-53K, 7 x AH-1, and 2 x MH-60S (assault mode)

OR

20 x F-35B and 2 x MH-60S (carrier mode)

I hope this helps.

(in reply to Rudd)

Post #: 3

RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/3/2015 5:46:50 PM

SeaQueen

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From: Washington D.C.
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The USMC forces deployed on amphibious ships are a Marine Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF). A MAGTF consists of a Command Element (CE), a Ground Combat Element (GCE), a logistics combat element (LCE) also known as the combat service support element (CSSE) and an Aviation Combat Element (ACE). The Harriers and CH-46s are part of the ACE.

In theory, MAGTFs are task organized, so there might be variations depending on the mission. One might, for instance decide that they want more heavy lift helos on a mission and not so many fighters. In practice, the core of the ACE is almost always the HMM (transitioning to VMM) squadron (consisting of 12 CH-46 or MV-22) reinforced with detachments from other types of squadrons including Harriers/F-35B, heavy lift helos, and helicopter gunships (UH-1/AH-1).

http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Portals/61/Docs/Amphibious_Capability.pdf

I don't believe taking the well deck out will mean space for more aircraft, because that organization remains the same. Additionally, the number of deck spots on the ship are also remaining the same. More likely is that the space will be used for more equipment for the GCE which will be delivered by vertical assault. I know, for example, there's been a movement to make the vertical assault element more mobile, using jeep-like vehicles which can fit inside the MV-22.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_(vehicle)

Those will take up space on the ship. Other equipment they need the space for is things like 120mm mortars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortier_120mm_Ray%C3%A9_Tract%C3%A9_Mod%C3%A8le_F1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Fire_(mortar)

which are intended to give the GCE more firepower especially at longer ranges.

(in reply to Rudd)

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RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/3/2015 7:49:06 PM

NakedWeasel

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This seems appropriate for this discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YBa9I5UPhk&index=4&list=WL

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RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/3/2015 8:41:26 PM

magi

Posts: 1529
Joined: 2/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

The USMC forces deployed on amphibious ships are a Marine Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF). A MAGTF consists of a Command Element (CE), a Ground Combat Element (GCE), a logistics combat element (LCE) also known as the combat service support element (CSSE) and an Aviation Combat Element (ACE). The Harriers and CH-46s are part of the ACE.

In theory, MAGTFs are task organized, so there might be variations depending on the mission. One might, for instance decide that they want more heavy lift helos on a mission and not so many fighters. In practice, the core of the ACE is almost always the HMM (transitioning to VMM) squadron (consisting of 12 CH-46 or MV-22) reinforced with detachments from other types of squadrons including Harriers/F-35B, heavy lift helos, and helicopter gunships (UH-1/AH-1).

http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Portals/61/Docs/Amphibious_Capability.pdf

I don't believe taking the well deck out will mean space for more aircraft, because that organization remains the same. Additionally, the number of deck spots on the ship are also remaining the same. More likely is that the space will be used for more equipment for the GCE which will be delivered by vertical assault. I know, for example, there's been a movement to make the vertical assault element more mobile, using jeep-like vehicles which can fit inside the MV-22.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_(vehicle)

Those will take up space on the ship. Other equipment they need the space for is things like 120mm mortars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortier_120mm_Ray%C3%A9_Tract%C3%A9_Mod%C3%A8le_F1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Fire_(mortar)

which are intended to give the GCE more firepower especially at longer ranges.

Nice post.... Thanks...

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 6

RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/4/2015 2:15:10 AM

Rudd

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Joined: 7/10/2013
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Found a Q&A with the America's Captain,
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/mar/21/the-amphibious-america-lha6/
3-4 more aircraft
More ordnance/fuel
Larger/better maintenance facilities
For sustainability of operations

< Message edited by Rudd -- 8/4/2015 3:38:32 AM >

(in reply to magi)

Post #: 7

RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/4/2015 2:47:18 PM

SeaQueen

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Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
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Right, and according to this:

http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Portals/61/Docs/Amphibious_Capability.pdf

Those are at least notionally RQ-21A Small Tactical Unmanned Air System (STUAS).

< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 8/4/2015 9:46:24 PM >

(in reply to Rudd)

Post #: 8

RE: What is the America's and Tripoli's air component? - 8/4/2015 8:14:49 PM

Gunner98

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Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
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Excellent links, thanks guys. Does anyone have similar detail on MEB's and MEF's, not too interested in the ground element but Amphib TF organizations etc. For instance II MEF and II MAW are fairly easy to track down but the amphibious lift to carry them is less well defined.

Thanks

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 9