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First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 5:47:42 PM   
Kensai83


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/15/2012
Status: offline 		How are your first impressions of SOWW????

Please write!!!

< Message edited by Kensai83 -- 6/9/2015 6:48:34 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 6:20:01 PM   
roy64


Posts: 246
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: England
Status: offline 		Massive disappointment, the toolbar is confusing & moving the camera around the map is very awkward. Scourge of War Gettysburg was perfect. Why change it?

(in reply to Kensai83)
Post #: 2
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 6:23:59 PM   
Pawsy

 

Posts: 339
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		Im enjoying it, AI seems to be improved and has different strategies if I repeat a scenario.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 6:40:13 PM   
mitra76

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 5/23/2011
Status: offline 		Roy try to activate the grog toolbar of Rebblugler if you want some more GB style toolbar (it is also for have a feedback for the future grog version of toolbar) you can also deactivate the contextual menu from the options if you want.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 6:43:09 PM   
oho_slith

 

Posts: 60
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		Massive disapointment for now. I would like to give it back in the current state.
The movement is almost always in line, column of division is rarely used (1 percent) by the ai opponent. Once I saw an melee ATTACK in column of division, but the rest is line units moving around and overlapping after a while.
Playing with 1:4 ration makes units-lines overlap very strong but also 1:6 ratio results sometimes in crosses where units cross each other in the center in 90 degrees. Whole chaos after a while with bigger scenarios.
There are brigades, no colonels and their regiments on the french side at least.
I'd wish I could say something more possitive. Maybe there is an option for default units movement over the battlefield that I overlooked - I hope so.
Gettysburgh was more realistic but Waterloo is a ACW Game in Napoleon uniform.


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Post #: 5
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 6:54:14 PM   
LittlePowell_NSD


Posts: 96
Joined: 10/12/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64

Massive disappointment, the toolbar is confusing & moving the camera around the map is very awkward. Scourge of War Gettysburg was perfect. Why change it?


The new movement/controls does take some getting used to. But once you get familiar with it, trust me, you'll wish Gettysburg had the same controls.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 6:54:44 PM   
milkweg


Posts: 546
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline 		Here is a 26 minute first look video, not mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOfoo0cl8KI

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 7:18:23 PM   
con20or

 

Posts: 246
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Status: offline 		cool video!

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 8:16:41 PM   
roy64


Posts: 246
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: England
Status: offline 		I hope so, but I'm really missing the right click to drag the map around, at the moment I have to spend most of my attention making sure I'm right clicking the toolbar & not the map.

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Post #: 9
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 8:32:50 PM   
ETF


Posts: 1748
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		Great experience so far!!! 9/10
For LAN MP games do we need to be online?

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 8:37:39 PM   
con20or

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 5/6/2015
Status: offline 		No, just direct connect. I have played with friends just using a single SKY router.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 8:47:27 PM   
RCHarmon


Posts: 322
Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline 		I'm satisfied. Looks good right out of the box.......how many games can say that???????? I have even tried it out in MP and good to go.

Use the optional tool bar in the mods section it is a must especially if your roots are in SOW Gettysburg.

Roy64, Get a three button mouse. The middle button is what you need for map navigation. I'm in the same boat that you are in. I have to buy a new mouse.

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Post #: 12
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 8:54:16 PM   
roy64


Posts: 246
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: England
Status: offline 		I have a three button mouse, it's the right click & drag that I'm missing.

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Post #: 13
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 9:45:05 PM   
e_barkmann


Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

it's the right click & drag that I'm missing.


Right click and drag anywhere on the bottom panel to make it work like GB interface.

Looking very impressive so far, but as others have said, if you're familiar with previous games some practice with the new ui will be needed to get up to speed.

Reeks of quality, well done chaps.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 9:52:34 PM   
Pawsy

 

Posts: 339
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		'melee ATTACK in column of division' historicaly the French did that a lot

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 10:07:57 PM   
roy64


Posts: 246
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: England
Status: offline 		Yes I know, that's what I don't like.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/9/2015 10:36:33 PM   
Squid

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/13/2011
Status: offline 		I think i have played or owned just about every napoleonic game released over the last 20 years.

This is the best, bar none.

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Post #: 17
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 12:09:35 AM   
MattFL

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:



The new movement/controls does take some getting used to. But once you get familiar with it, trust me, you'll wish Gettysburg had the same controls.



Umm...no I won't. There was just no need for the context menu and after controlling the camera with Right-Click for 3 years, having the entire system changed is a bummer. Yes, I'm sure it's something to get used to, but overall I find it far more confusing than it needs to be. Hopefully all of this can be modded....

Other than this however, I've enjoyed my first few games...

< Message edited by mattp -- 6/10/2015 1:10:18 AM >

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Post #: 18
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 1:34:50 AM   
MattFL

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		One thing I sort of hate is that the French assault column looks sort of silly. It has WAY too much depth to it. I can sort of understand the rationale if trying to simulate a 6 company column, but it seems to throw the scale way off and the depth is far too much. The middle and rear ranks should be closed in more with the front rank. Assault columns historically didn't have nearly this much depth to them and in game it's difficult to tell lines apart from Column by Division. not sure why it was made this way, but it's sort of a downer...

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Post #: 19
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 2:38:11 AM   
itkotw2000

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 8/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is my first Scourge of War game so I don't have much to compare my impressions to.
I started the game by picking the first battle as French (taking a forest then farm). The battle starts by telling you to probe the forest and the game detaches three units to skirmish. I seriously feel like the game is trying to fight me at every click of the mouse and turn of the camera.

Once you give a move order, there is no telling where your unit will end up. There is no way to tell approximately what space your formation will take up when it reaches its destination. This is important because the game does not like to overlap formations and it will rearrange your troops which ever way it sees fit. If my supporting artillery is to the south and the enemy to the north, the game might try to "fix" my formations by sending my troops to the north east. Far too often you will give an order to a unit, and then a minute later look back and see the unit walking in the other direction.

Since the first battle involves a farmhouse/fort, there are instances where your line wheels around and half of your formation is on one side of the wall and the other half on the other side. Your troop formations do not really collide with the wall. It is abstract. When this happens you have no way of telling what your troops are really doing (I get this feeling most of the time I play this). Are they fighting past the wall? Are they firing at the wall? Did they make it past the wall? Are they firing at the troops in the courtyard? Trying to defend the wall as the British gives you the same problems. It was very hard playing the British to get setup in the fort, at least in a way that appears to make sense.

The part that really interested me and is pretty much the only reason I considered the game is the Sandbox Campaign. Thought of out maneuvering the enemy and trapping/tricking them seems to me what the battle of Waterloo was all about. I managed to start three different campaigns, each ending prematurely after one battle. It went so poorly I had to restart. First battle of the first campaign I had a French division of infantry and a division of cavalry detached and stationary in a town. The enemy advanced on the town and the battle started. Only my infantry division was there in the battle, no cavalry. Started over. First battle of the second campaign I had two detached infantry divisions in a town, stationary. The enemy advances and the battle starts. My forces start out defending the town while facing north. Time goes on, I don't see any enemy. I send out a couple scout units. Time goes on - no enemy. Then I realized the enemy was coming from the east and the game set my forces facing north. There is no real hint to the direction the enemy is coming. I you cant go back and look at the strategy map to get your bearings. Started over. First battle of the third campaign. I had two detached divisions in a town. The enemy advanced and the battle started. It took me a second to figure out the game set me as the attacker and the enemy (that just advanced to the town) as the defender. I was looking forward to a hard defense(I was out numbered) That was it for me too many hours spent fighting the game, start over...

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 3:42:59 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Thanks itkotw, the first half of your post is very informative. I was wondering how the game handled this kind of thing. Good to hear an opinion from a first tome SOW player.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 5:57:16 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I am assuming the first part of itkotw's post is typical of the SoW series' formation/move oddities at times. I can deal with that.

However, his second point about the sandbox campaign throwing you into battles where you don't know if you are attacking or defending or from where the enemy cometh is of greater concern. Even the most basic random battle generators give the player an idea of their goals. Clueless roaming around a large SoW battlefield for an hour looking for a fight doesn't sound like fun.

His description reminds me of "quick battles" in CM Shock Force, the oldest of the Combat Mission 2 games. Since then, Battlefront has improved quick battles in its series, but no one recommends playing them with the ancient CMSF engine. This issue has put the game on hold for me until more people weigh in.


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Post #: 22
RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 6:38:34 AM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

I am assuming the first part of itkotw's post is typical of the SoW series' formation/move oddities at times. I can deal with that.

However, his second point about the sandbox campaign throwing you into battles where you don't know if you are attacking or defending or from where the enemy cometh is of greater concern. Even the most basic random battle generators give the player an idea of their goals. Clueless roaming around a large SoW battlefield for an hour looking for a fight doesn't sound like fun.

His description reminds me of "quick battles" in CM Shock Force, the oldest of the Combat Mission 2 games. Since then, Battlefront has improved quick battles in its series, but no one recommends playing them with the ancient CMSF engine. This issue has put the game on hold for me until more people weigh in.



I literally just loaded the game and marched two armies into each other, and took a screenshot first thing. Were you looking at the Battle Map to find your objective? That can make it much easier.

Sorry if the image isn't clear, I had to dramatically downgrade the screenshot because of the file size limit for matrix forums but that text showing on the screen where my mouse cursor is is explaining that your objective is to hold that point and the yellow X on the map is the objective.





Attachment (1)

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 7:54:41 AM   
con20or

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 5/6/2015
Status: offline 		SOW does take some getting use to but once you understand how it works it is great fun.

I've tried to deal with most of your questions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: itkotw
Once you give a move order, there is no telling where your unit will end up.

If you select your unit or their superior you should see destination markers on the ground.

-

quote:

ORIGINAL: itkotw
There is no way to tell approximately what space your formation will take up when it reaches its destination.

This takes practice when moving individual units in combat, but all brigade+ formations (unless you are using a very high sprite ratio) have been predesigned to make sure there is no overlap. There is also an option in the courier menu to tell units to form up to the left/right/rear of etc. If you really want to see a polygon marking the frontage of the units at a destination point their is an ini file edit i can give you. We use it for scenario design.

-

quote:

ORIGINAL: itkotw
Are they firing at the wall?

The unit dialogue in the upper left hand corner will tell you who you are targeting at any time. The lines clipping with buildings is unfortunate - we worked hard to remove it but it just lead to problems with units occupying forts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: itkotw
The enemy advanced on the town and the battle started. Only my infantry division was there in the battle, no cavalry.

Units must be combined prior to a battle to fight together.

-

quote:

ORIGINAL: itkotw
There is no real hint to the direction the enemy is coming.

If you want all units revealed on the map just lower the difficulty setting. The enemy could split up anyway so there is no one direction - but they will usually follow roads.

-

quote:

ORIGINAL: itkotw
It took me a second to figure out the game set me as the attacker and the enemy (that just advanced to the town) as the defender. I was looking forward to a hard defense(I was out numbered) That was it for me too many hours spent fighting the game, start over...

If you hover over the objective on the map it tells you who can and can't take the objective.

-


On the campaign map, depending on the size of the forces involved if you are in the town you are the defender. If you attack troops in the town you are the attacker. We have a check put in that if the 2 forces spawning at the objective are very large then it might default to a 'hunt them down' scenario. If you meet on the road it alternates between a 'line of sight' confrontation battle or a 'hunt them down' battle.



< Message edited by con20or -- 6/10/2015 9:07:11 AM >

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 9:40:05 AM   
Thorsten

 

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Joined: 6/10/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64


quote:

moving the camera around the map is very awkward


True. And getting your troops where you want want them is nearly impossible with this (beschissenen (sorry)) green arrow.

< Message edited by Thorsten -- 6/10/2015 10:40:40 AM >

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 9:43:36 AM   
Grim.Reaper


Posts: 1355
Joined: 12/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thorsten

quote:

ORIGINAL: roy64


quote:

moving the camera around the map is very awkward


True. And getting your troops where you want want them is nearly impossible with this (beschissenen (sorry)) green arrow.


This I agree with...trying to face your unit with the green arrow and selecting a precise spot on the map seems very tricky for some reason. As I try and drag the green arrow around, just feels like your fighting it.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 9:43:37 AM   
con20or

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 5/6/2015
Status: offline 		It really is great once you get used to it. I wont be going back tot he old UI I can tell you that. What were you trying to do Thorsten?

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 9:51:19 AM   
Grim.Reaper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: con20or

It really is great once you get used to it. I wont be going back tot he old UI I can tell you that. What were you trying to do Thorsten?


For me, I like the intent of using the context menu, but just seems very imprecise right now. Unless you go to extreme ground level view, when you click on the map, the green arrow does not appear to show in the specific location you selected, often it is shown a little ways off. Then when you try to rotate the arrow, it just seems like a struggle to change direction, especially if your trying to change it from one complete direction to another (i.e. from front to back). Then as I struggle with the placement, most times I accidentally select another place on the ground and my unit moves there.

Again, I like the concept, just been tough to be precise and quickly use it, which makes it a little frustrating. Maybe with time that will change...

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 9:54:54 AM   
con20or

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 5/6/2015
Status: offline 		An alternative method some people use is to click, hold and pan the camera. That also pans the green arrow.

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RE: First Impressions?!?! - 6/10/2015 11:59:14 AM   
roy64


Posts: 246
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: con20or

It really is great once you get used to it. I wont be going back tot he old UI I can tell you that. What were you trying to do Thorsten?


I know you keep asking for people to "Persevere with the new UI" which I'm really trying to do, believe me I am! But what If I can't? will it be moddable? or is it a case of lump it or like it.

(in reply to con20or)
Post #: 30
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