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I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work

 
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I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/3/2015 5:03:56 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		PBEM SCN 2 LATE FEB44 2 day turns
I400 is a fun ship to get into play-
I400 is with various other subs with Glens looking for unescorted TF.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Cooktown at 96,136

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
M6A1 Seiran x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Deimos, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x M6A1 Seiran launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

So even though naval attack has the TT in red - it still works BUT the I400 has no TT stock as such so I have no idea what TT they are using.
The Glens spotted the TF and all the seirans were naval attack with TT.
Post #: 1
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 4:20:00 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Results of overpowered sea search Glen and underpowerd port recon Glen.

Glen historically was mostly employed for land(read port recon), in game they are almost useless while doing port recon and too good at sea search like if they could be in the air all day.

As an example when the IJN sent the submarine picket patrol ahead of Midway operation, not one was a submarine with Glens. Because they were difficult to employ for sea search as most players do.

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 2
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 9:54:02 AM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		OK so a house rule would be to say restrict glen to say 2 hexes? The attack I think was at 3 hexes and the Glen spotted at 2 I think...
I do however think that these subs were build for ops at sea just like all othe FP on ships.

I always read that the allied FP recon was actually never that good and Jap always better - cannot remember where. Maybe its just the range of the Glen.

Anyway my post was about the I400

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 3
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 2:12:19 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Probably should be disallowed in a HR as this sort of attack really was not feasible. It is hard for me to imagine the sea and air conditions alone that would be suited for a float plane to get up into the air with a torpedo. Not to mention the logistical issues associated with arming them (but I don't know about those subs). However, as the Allied player, I don't think I would mind tossing an occasional holiday gift to my Japanese opponent so would not care much. He is going to be eating so many Allied bombs come 1944 anyways...

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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 2:55:13 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		The Japanese may have lost the war but they were clever. If it could not have been done they would not have built the sub. I read it was 1960 before there was a bigger sub than I400.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 5
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 3:09:19 PM   
Feltan


Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Probably should be disallowed in a HR as this sort of attack really was not feasible. It is hard for me to imagine the sea and air conditions alone that would be suited for a float plane to get up into the air with a torpedo. Not to mention the logistical issues associated with arming them (but I don't know about those subs). However, as the Allied player, I don't think I would mind tossing an occasional holiday gift to my Japanese opponent so would not care much. He is going to be eating so many Allied bombs come 1944 anyways...



+1

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 6
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 4:09:38 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		The Seiran were build for this. They were designed as a submarine attack aircraft and one of the objective was to attack Panama Canal. They were catapulted from the submarine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine

< Message edited by Dili -- 12/4/2015 5:27:17 PM >

(in reply to Feltan)
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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 4:12:52 PM   
Dili

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

OK so a house rule would be to say restrict glen to say 2 hexes? The attack I think was at 3 hexes and the Glen spotted at 2 I think...
I do however think that these subs were build for ops at sea just like all othe FP on ships.

I always read that the allied FP recon was actually never that good and Jap always better - cannot remember where. Maybe its just the range of the Glen.

Anyway my post was about the I400



Maybe but i am not sure, the issues i see is that thay detect a lot of ships, then they have too much operational durability for flying all days in a patrol.

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 8:59:07 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

The Seiran were build for this. They were designed as a submarine attack aircraft and one of the objective was to attack Panama Canal. They were catapulted from the submarine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine


Have an in progress build of one underway now and you beat me to the statement regarding the catapult.

I know the assembly instructions have a drawing depicting how the torps were reloaded into the submarine.

I'll bring the instructions to work next Monday and scan them so I can post a pic.

Can't recall if the instruction include stats on torp capacity.

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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 9:02:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		It is hard to analyze how much enjoyment a bombed out JFB gets enjoyment from something as little as hitting a lowly merchant ship in 1944. Let him have some fun. I shudder to think of all those ship points being spent to accelerate that ship to arrive in Jan of 44.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 10
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 9:11:21 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

The Seiran were build for this. They were designed as a submarine attack aircraft and one of the objective was to attack Panama Canal. They were catapulted from the submarine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine


Yes, they could potentially carry a torpedo but could they when operating from a sub? Would the catapult launch them with a torpedo? Hard to imagine for the reasons I said above, but I just don't have a clue.

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(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 11
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 9:12:25 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

The Seiran were build for this. They were designed as a submarine attack aircraft and one of the objective was to attack Panama Canal. They were catapulted from the submarine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine


Have an in progress build of one underway now and you beat me to the statement regarding the catapult.

I know the assembly instructions have a drawing depicting how the torps were reloaded into the submarine.

I'll bring the instructions to work next Monday and scan them so I can post a pic.

Can't recall if the instruction include stats on torp capacity.


Thanks Hans. It has my interest up a bit.


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Post #: 12
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 10:48:15 PM   
Insano

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 7/23/2009
From: Joplin, Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

It is hard to analyze how much enjoyment a bombed out JFB gets enjoyment from something as little as hitting a lowly merchant ship in 1944. Let him have some fun. I shudder to think of all those ship points being spent to accelerate that ship to arrive in Jan of 44.


No kidding. That's a lot of acceleration. Though now that I say it he's doing scen 2 and I'm looking at scen 1. In scen 1 I-400 and I-401 come in around 1 Jan 45. The Seiran plane would itself need accelerated to be available at such an early date. That's a big investment but it does look like a load of fun during an otherwise dark time.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 13
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/4/2015 10:58:18 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Those three planes will come with the sub, so all you have to do is accelerate the sub which is very expensive.

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Post #: 14
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/5/2015 12:01:04 AM   
Insano

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 7/23/2009
From: Joplin, Missouri
Status: offline 		I remember an AAR where someone was terrorizing (relatively speaking) the California coast with these things. Can't remember who it was though.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 15
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/5/2015 5:03:47 AM   
Dili

 

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Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yes, they could potentially carry a torpedo but could they when operating from a sub? Would the catapult launch them with a torpedo? Hard to imagine for the reasons I said above, but I just don't have a clue.


This aircraft was build for this propose. Which once again shows how much bad decisions the Japanese War production had. A monstruous super expensive submarine and a niche floatplane.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 16
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/5/2015 9:56:21 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Erik used them in our game. No need to HR anything. They are amusing to watch but that is about it.

Who cares if you lose a couple of xAKs in 44? Its a good laugh for both sides!

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 17
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/5/2015 3:56:55 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		They cost as much to build as a cruiser
A real waste of time and resources. And being that big, easy to eliminate once detected. Just think how easily were German milkcows eliminated by dedicated ASW TFs. And I 400s were 3 times bigger



< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 12/5/2015 5:04:24 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/6/2015 5:38:40 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Note that this seems to have snorkel so it is a bit different.

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Post #: 19
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/8/2015 8:13:30 AM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		Anyway - no one has said how many TT reloads I have as the I400 has no separate TT load like a CV? the main point of this post was for jap players within the game. Yes I did accelerate the I400.
If operating a long way from home there is always a chance they catch a ship of real importance.
So I will post on this thread the activities of I400 and see how we go.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 20
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/8/2015 10:19:16 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		It is also a way to force the enemy to spread their forces.

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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/9/2015 11:46:08 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Sorry it took me so long to respond with some pics of the model assembly instructions, but I have been down sick the last two days.

Here is a pic from the instructions showing how torps are loaded into the sub.
This appears to be how the sub itself is stocked for its forward tubes and not as ordnance for the planes.






Attachment (1)

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Hans


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Post #: 22
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/9/2015 11:47:52 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		This is a pic of the data on the planes. It states that they were stowed with ordnance loaded and that they could be launched with either 800kg bombs or torpedoes.

Don't think there were any torpedo reloads for the planes.




Attachment (1)

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Hans


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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/9/2015 12:05:31 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks. Doesn't seem to have torpedo quantities there or i am missing it?

(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/9/2015 5:36:08 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		According to CombinedFleet.com, "The Sen Toku submarines carried four aerial torpedoes, three 800kg bombs, and twelve 250kg bombs to arm these aircraft."

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ships/i-400

< Message edited by Puhis -- 12/9/2015 6:36:27 PM >

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 25
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/9/2015 8:22:05 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks. So 1 torp for each aircraft plus a reserve.

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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/10/2015 10:36:46 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		The model intructions don't indicate where ordnance stores for the aircraft were kept nor the process of reloading.

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Hans


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Post #: 27
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/14/2015 4:23:19 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		Well maybe someone should mod it...
My allied opponent is quite startled...
And they attack the next turn as well.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Portland Roads at 93,130

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
M6A1 Seiran x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
M6A1 Seiran: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Cheleb, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x M6A1 Seiran launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 28
RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/15/2015 12:10:51 PM   
oaltinyay

 

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Status: offline 		Interesting I am building them and wonder if they can do night attacks against Derek's aircraft carriers at night...

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RE: I400 -Sieran TT attack, yes they do work - 12/15/2015 1:12:10 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		Or if the CV are near home waters maybe they will be flying no CAP?
That would be the biggest prize. I am using the I400 with about 8 Glen boats who do the looking - I have about 3 normal boats moving into the way of the convoy.

I have the I401 completing in about 10 days. Its March 44 in my game - do not go near where allied ASW will be high in the air or at sea.

< Message edited by cavalry -- 12/15/2015 2:13:03 PM >

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