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Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 11:58:54 AM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Since I'm currently (re-) learning how to play this amazing wargame I have some questions:

A squadron of Dauntless dive bombers on board a CV has orders for naval attack and airfield attack. They are also tasked with naval search (20%) to cover a 60° arc. The altitude is set to 10.000ft and the range to 8. Is this the setting for naval search or for naval/airfield attack? Since my F4F-4s only have a max range of 6 I wouldn't want the dive bombers to go for a target at range 8.

Next question: do carrier aircraft only react to sightings of their own air groups? Or will they attack any naval target in range sighted by other carriers' air groups or land based AC?




Post #: 1
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 12:16:16 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		The range is for all mission options, so your DBs may fly to a target your fighters can't reach if you don't restrict their range.

Flying Nav attack missions is based on a very complex algorithm that often leaves players stumped as to why their planes didn't fly.

Yes, the carrier squadrons and also LBA squadrons will fly against targets spotted by other squadrons, but my personal experience since the days of Uncommon Valor is that you increase the chanse that a given squadron will fly by having a percentage of that squadron searching.

I typically set my LBA squadrons to 10% search even if I am primarily relying on my naval search planes (PBYs) for the bulk of the search task.

Any target in range of your carrier bombers is also in range of your search aircraft as they are one and the same.

It would not be advisable to not search with your carrier bombers and rely only on LBA search to identify targets for the carrier.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/28/2016 12:18:50 PM >

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 12:40:31 PM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thanks for the quick reply!

I'll reduce the range of the attack planes to match my escorts' range then. And will experiment with all squadrons flying naval search.


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Post #: 3
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 1:43:59 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParaB

Thanks for the quick reply!

I'll reduce the range of the attack planes to match my escorts' range then. And will experiment with all squadrons flying naval search.



Pay also attention to reduced loads. Bombers operating beyond their normal range use a reduced load. You can check this at the aircraft data screen at the left bottom.

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Post #: 4
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 2:41:43 PM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I might be doing something right! Just sank both Shokaku and Zuikaku in the Guadalcanal scenario with combined airstrikes from Henderson field and my CV force (Enterprise, Saratoga, Wasp).

Enterprise got hit in return but I hope I can save her.



EDIT:

And another question: when I have two LCUs in a hex defending against enemy units what happens when I switch one of my units to "rest"? Will the unit rest and not get attacked as long as the other successfully defends or do I have to pull back a unit to another hex in order to rest it without the danger of getting into combat?

< Message edited by ParaB -- 4/28/2016 2:47:12 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 4:28:27 PM   
DConn

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Bainbridge Island, WA
Status: offline 		I don't think you can put a unit on "rest" in an enemy-occupied hex.

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Currently defending the free world against montesaurus, DBB-B, Scen. 28

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 4:30:58 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Congrats on concentrating your forces for that strike on his carriers. A lot of players get their CVs damaged in the Guadalcanal scenario before Shokaku and Zuikaku even appear.

Your resting troops will not lie in their hooches while the enemy is attacking. They will join the battle but may take some losses because they were not in their foxholes when the attack began. If you want to keep them in the hex but out of the fight, put them in "Reserve" mode. Then they will only join the battle if:

- the enemy is defeating the other unit and may overwhelm the defence (that's what reserves are for)
- your other unit defeats the enemy and their units are fleeing the hex (your unit may pursue to inflict more casualties on them)

There is some risk in the pursuit aspect - sometimes your troops follow into the next hex where there may be some fresh enemy troops that are stronger than your pursuers.

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Post #: 7
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 6:37:43 PM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thank you, much appreciated.


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Post #: 8
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 6:52:07 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
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From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

There is some risk in the pursuit aspect - sometimes your troops follow into the next hex where there may be some fresh enemy troops that are stronger than your pursuers.


Yes, but for the most part units will take more than one turn to complete the move so you just have to remember to cancel the move the next turn.
Only if its tanks/motorized moving down a road that you have a real risk of pursuit running into a buzz saw.

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 6:54:07 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I think you are right Hans, thanks for adding that!

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 6:56:49 PM   
Revthought


Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline 		While you cannot put units in an occupied bed on rest, you can put them on reserve, which means they won't do much fighting unless absolutely necessary. Also, fun fact, AA units shoot planes with full effectiveness in reserve without being exposed to land combat.

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Post #: 11
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 7:32:33 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		If there's any question of an encounter with enemy carriers, I advise you search at full range. You can't count on float planes as they will not operate in heavy seas, so the ones on your cruisers and BBs are gravy at best. If you play like me you will set your carrier TF to a react range equal to your search range. Your enemy will probably do likewise. By the time you prep and launch your strike the target may well be in range of your escorts. Dive bombers are not unlikely to be successful even if unescorted. On another matter, I very rarely use carrier planes to attack airfields, especially in the early years through '43. A few potholes are not worth the loss of a single aircrew. Send some ships to bombard and you'll likely get better results anyway.

Oh, and in my view 10% on search is adequate in most cases.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 4/28/2016 7:40:26 PM >

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 8:07:51 PM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Yeah, I'm still experimenting with the reaction range.

Another thing I'm not sure about: I currently have a couple of Wildcat and Dauntless squadrons stationed at Henderson, plus 2 squadrons of Avengers (from the Enterprise) which I want to move out, but can't since many of the group's aircraft are damaged.

Stacking is 99/100 and 4 of 3 groups. I've shot down some 60 Bettys so far, but on a regular basis small groups of aircraft try to attack my shipping at Lunga. Something like 2-3 Zeros escorting 5 Bettys. Which are always welcomed by a CAP of 10+ Wildcats, flying at 10-15k. And every single time during the last 6 days the Bettys slip through my CAP without getting attacked at all. The Wildcat pilots have decent experience, high morale and little fatigue. Weather varies. Could it be that low AV support is the reason for this?


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Post #: 13
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 8:17:10 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		At what altitude are the Bettys slipping through? If you have "a couple" of Wildcat sqds try setting each to a different alt., say 8k and 13k perhaps. Being at a lower altitude is a disadvantage, but against Bettys that doesn't amount to much.

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Post #: 14
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 8:37:35 PM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I just checked, I had all Wildcats squadrons set to patrol at 15k feet. The last Betty attacks were at 6-7k. I changed CAP to 10k and just wiped out a small strike (3 Zeros, 6 Betty) with no losses.




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Post #: 15
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 8:52:19 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParaB

I just checked, I had all Wildcats squadrons set to patrol at 15k feet. The last Betty attacks were at 6-7k. I changed CAP to 10k and just wiped out a small strike (3 Zeros, 6 Betty) with no losses.






That's the way it's done!

Sound advice form the lizardman.

When your intercepts don't seem to be working always dig into the data to see what altitude mismatch may be the problem.


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Hans


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Post #: 16
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 9:34:31 PM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The Cactus Airforce just wrecked a Japanese attempt to reinforce Tassafaronga, with a little help from Saratoga.

I'm still rather horrible when it comes to logistics though but sloooowly I'm starting to understand the basics. Like not getting my carriers run out of fuel in the middle of the Pacific... or landing soldiers without supplies... or establishing an airfield without support personnel...

If only the Japanese navy wouldn't scare me so much during night engagements... I swear all my captains are either drunk or sound asleep as soon as it's getting dark...

Oh, and we just celebrated the 90th Betty kill.






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Post #: 17
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 9:59:10 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParaB

The Cactus Airforce just wrecked a Japanese attempt to reinforce Tassafaronga, with a little help from Saratoga.

I'm still rather horrible when it comes to logistics though but sloooowly I'm starting to understand the basics. Like not getting my carriers run out of fuel in the middle of the Pacific... or landing soldiers without supplies... or establishing an airfield without support personnel...

If only the Japanese navy wouldn't scare me so much during night engagements... I swear all my captains are either drunk or sound asleep as soon as it's getting dark...

Oh, and we just celebrated the 90th Betty kill.




It's primarily the lack of nighttime crew experience, but in some cases it will be a ship and/or TF commander with lacking Naval and Aggressiveness skills.

The first problem can only be addressed by getting them into combat, taking your losses and finding the silver lining in the experience gains of the survivors.

The second problem can and should be addressed by combing through your ships and TFs and switching out poor commanders.



< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/28/2016 10:00:48 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 10:53:16 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Don't get too cocky there ParaB, I take it you are playing the AI.

Seriously though, you do have to learn somewhere. That being said the real reason for my post...

quote:

A squadron of Dauntless dive bombers on board a CV has orders for naval attack and airfield attack. They are also tasked with naval search (20%) to cover a 60° arc.


I don't set search arcs for TF's at sea. I prefer to search 360 degrees as I don't wish to be blindsided from a direction that I'm not looking at, especially with a CV TF. Oh, and in case you're not aware all searches are conducted 360 degrees out to a range of four hexes, provided the A/C has sufficient range, no matter what arc you set.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/28/2016 11:36:47 PM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

Oh, and in case you're not aware all searches are conducted 360 degrees out to a range of four hexes, provided the A/C has sufficient range, no matter what arc you set.


I don't think I understand... If I set a search arc for a squadron to, say 60°, why would they search in a 360 arc° instead ? And why would AC only search out to 4 hexes when they have a range of 8? The "show search arc" hotkey displays the arcs with various ranges.

Or do you mean that AC not given a search arc automatically search in a 360° arc with a range of 4?




EDIT:

And yeah, I play vs the AI. Played the Coral Sea scenario and wanted to take the next step. The complexity certainly increased a lot, feels like I need a staff to play this game.



< Message edited by ParaB -- 4/28/2016 11:40:52 PM >

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 20
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 2:39:18 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Let me clarify. First I've only played as Japan as yet so I'll use an example from their side of the fence as I'm familiar with their A/C. OK, let's say I have a float plane group with 24 Jakes in it. I set it to search a 90 degree arc. The Jake has a normal range of 8, and I have it set to 8. So it will search the arc out to 8 hexes as told. In addition the same group will cover a 360 degree area out to four hexes from its base. Make more sense now? If not just ask and I'll see if I can explain it better.

quote:

feels like I need a staff to play this game.


I said the same thing when I started playing the game. I've only played the CG and from the Japanese side. It takes a while to come to grips with their economy. Especially if you're like me and try to eke out everything you can.

P.S. Now understand that in the above example I'm being very simplistic as any group may not fly for a number of reasons.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 2:39:33 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Don't get too cocky there ParaB, I take it you are playing the AI.

Seriously though, you do have to learn somewhere. That being said the real reason for my post...

quote:

A squadron of Dauntless dive bombers on board a CV has orders for naval attack and airfield attack. They are also tasked with naval search (20%) to cover a 60° arc.


I don't set search arcs for TF's at sea. I prefer to search 360 degrees as I don't wish to be blindsided from a direction that I'm not looking at, especially with a CV TF. Oh, and in case you're not aware all searches are conducted 360 degrees out to a range of four hexes, provided the A/C has sufficient range, no matter what arc you set.


here, here. +1


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Post #: 22
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 2:54:52 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Don't set search arcs. If on any given turn you have 95% of searches given search arcs to attend to, that's 95% or nearly so too many. Just because you can do something does not mean you should.

My advice to novices is, first learn to play the game without search arcs then consider them after you have experience. Once you have experience you can opt to NOT USE SEARCH ARCS.

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Post #: 23
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 3:59:31 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		I've used arcs almost from the beginning and don't see a problem. I find them to be largely a set it and forget it. After all the base doesn't move and once I've got the area covered I see no need to alter an arc. In areas like China and Indo-China I don't want my naval searches looking over wide swaths of land either. I can also make sure I have both day phases covered. Just hit the 'Z' hotkey and I instantly see my empire wide search coverage. Gives me a warm fuzzy when I see all those arcs. The above is JMHO and of course YMMV. As you say they may not be necessary.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 24
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 10:51:39 AM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thanks for the clarification!

Another couple of questions:

- do ships load/unload cargo faster if they're docked?
- CAP only protects the hex it originates from while LRCAP provides CAP over nearby hexes, correct?
- do subs still react to targets when I use "remain on station"?
- how accurate are the combat reports? I hit a large Japanese troop convoy en route to Tassafaronga with aircraft and surface forces, according to the battle report the casualties were more than 12.000 soldiers?
- I've sent a tank battalion to Lunga. It's taking ages to unload. Should I only use special transports for mechanized units?
- When I want to move a LCU to another (enemy held) hex, should I use "combat" or "move" order?

I'm really grateful for all the input you guys provide.


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 25
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 11:49:53 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I'm one who doesn't use search arcs at all.

I agree with the Gorn, unnecessary chrome that delivers little real advantage and adds mountains of micromanagement.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/29/2016 11:51:23 AM >

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RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 2:11:44 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParaB

Thanks for the clarification!

Another couple of questions:

- do ships load/unload cargo faster if they're docked?
- CAP only protects the hex it originates from while LRCAP provides CAP over nearby hexes, correct?
- do subs still react to targets when I use "remain on station"?
- how accurate are the combat reports? I hit a large Japanese troop convoy en route to Tassafaronga with aircraft and surface forces, according to the battle report the casualties were more than 12.000 soldiers?
- I've sent a tank battalion to Lunga. It's taking ages to unload. Should I only use special transports for mechanized units?
- When I want to move a LCU to another (enemy held) hex, should I use "combat" or "move" order?

I'm really grateful for all the input you guys provide.




1) Are you actually asking that question? You're the captain of a cargo ship needing to unload and you're looking at an open dock. You say, 'Nah, I'm not going to dock, I can dump stuff overboard faster than I can put it on that dock.

2) No. CAP operates within the range you allow.

3) Subs react to anything in their hex. If you want them to react to something outside of their hex don't do that.

4) How accurate is the gossip going around the forum about you right now? That's how accurate those reports are.

5) You don't have a developed port. Be happy if any of those tanks unload at all.

6) Do not get caught by your enemy in "move" mode.


< Message edited by geofflambert -- 4/29/2016 2:14:30 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 2:50:16 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParaB

Thanks for the clarification!

Another couple of questions:

- do ships load/unload cargo faster if they're docked?

Depends on the type of TF. An Amphib TF will unload faster on its own at a level 0 or level 1 port and nearly as fast at a level 2 port. I try to dock my ships with the heaviest equipment (vehicles, guns, radar) and then rotate them as they get down to just supply left.

- CAP only protects the hex it originates from while LRCAP provides CAP over nearby hexes, correct?

CAP operates in the circular range of hexes you set. Sometimes in pursuit of an enemy aircraft it will even go a hex further. This is called "bleeding CAP" in the game. LRCAP goes to a specific hex or target TF and stays as long as fuel allows before returning.


- do subs still react to targets when I use "remain on station"?

Subs on patrol may react to a target with a high D/L in an adjacent hex if they are set with [react 1]. I have never seen a sub set to "remain on station" react, but I never use this setting either. Note that a sub on patrol will return to its patrol zone after a react away. I am not sure what a sub remaining on station would do if it reacted away.

- how accurate are the combat reports? I hit a large Japanese troop convoy en route to Tassafaronga with aircraft and surface forces, according to the battle report the casualties were more than 12.000 soldiers?

Usually the reports are greatly exaggerated, but I think the mix of troops is reasonably accurate so you can guess whether the troops were a Regiment, a BF, a construction unit, AFVs, artillery, an HQ, etc.

- I've sent a tank battalion to Lunga. It's taking ages to unload. Should I only use special transports for mechanized units?

Until you get LSTs and LCTs you do not have specialized landing craft for tanks. You need a big enough port/dock and lots of naval support to unload. Sometimes it can take a day or two to unload ONE tank, so patience and CAP are your friends.

- When I want to move a LCU to another (enemy held) hex, should I use "combat" or "move" order?

Move orders will cover ground the most quickly but troops are vulnerable to air attack and bombardment if they are in the open. In the jungle they should be OK.
You can even enter an enemy hex in move mode - he cannot order an attack on you in the same turn unless you already have troops in his hex. You just have to remember to switch to combat mode at start of next turn. Exception: if you are crossing a river into enemy territory the game invokes an automatic shock attack on your part. I do not know if being in combat mode before the shock attack improves things over being in move mode. Since a SA is a "Combat Mode only" order, you would think the move mode is scrubbed prior to the SA.
As the Gorn says - if you are already in a hex with enemy troops do not try to move away in Move mode. Use Combat mode ( like backing away from a bear but keeping your gun on him).
I'm really grateful for all the input you guys provide.


I embedded some responses which are a bit different from the Gorn's ...

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to ParaB)
Post #: 28
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 7:28:37 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I have entered an enemy hex in move mode by accident and survived, but just don't do it. One time I arrived with troops loaded on xAKs but not in amphibious mode at an enemy held island. I don't speak Francaise but a lot of it jumped out of my mouth. Then I thought "I wonder if...?" Now never do this because it would be cheating but as I recall I made new TFs out of the improperly loaded TF in amphibious mode and unloaded them. Somebody playtest that and see if I'm right. It shouldn't be possible. Maybe Michael M could figure out a way to stop that.


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Post #: 29
RE: Newbie questions - 4/29/2016 7:43:14 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Because of the different load factors you cannot take a ship that is Transport loaded (no capacity reduction) and put it in an Amphib TF which is loaded with 20% reduction of capacity. Even after unloading some, but not all, of the troops from your transport TF it will not let you put the ship in an Amphib one.
Once all the troops are unloaded and only supply is left I think you can switch to amphib unloading.

I don't know if switching to a "Fast Transport" TF is feasible if the ship type is appropriate. The game should not allow because of the pack/unpack time. FT is combat mode and 0 pack/unpack time, transport is strat mode and at least 1 p/unp.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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