MG Tanks: Do You Use Them? How?

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MG Tanks: Do You Use Them? How? - 3/23/2003 11:05:16 PM

AbsntMndedProf

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How often do you use MG tanks, and how do you use them as part of your strategy?

Eric Maietta

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- 3/24/2003 1:52:19 AM

Kemper Von Boyd

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I use them very rarely, practically only when playing scenarios that have them. They are good for supporting infantry against an enemy without armor, good for wiping up "pockets of resistance", such as pesky machine gun crews sitting in buildings overlooking an open field. Pretty much the same things can be done with armored cars, which are faster and mostly cheaper.

But why use an MG tank when you can use a Tiger with an 88 and not one, but two MGs?

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- 3/24/2003 2:01:20 AM

Belisarius

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The only MG tanks I use are my 'battlefield conversions', i.e. tanks that gets their main gun shot out or jammed. :p

Sometimes I consider using them vs. the U.S. for countering the numerous armored scouts, but as said - armored cars work as good at less cost. This is ofcourse a 'weakness' in the game model, as wheeled vehicles doesn't suffer from inferior cross-country ability. ;)

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- 3/25/2003 4:57:47 AM

TheChin

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Once I played an interesting scenario PBEM where it was a beach landing of German vs. Greece where I was Greece. Needless to say, sticking to National units and not buying from another country, I didn't have much to choose from as far as AFV's go. Interestingly enough, the MG AFV's that were available did serve a purpose as bullet magnets. I think also, and I could be wrong, that they decrease suppression for Infantry in the same hex. I seem to remember something about that.

In any case, while the German player tried to clear the bluffs of the pesky AFV's, he was delayed on the beach where I could continue to rain down Artillery and towed gun fire on him. I didn't win but I did pull out a draw, which was more than I expected with the forces I started with.

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- 3/25/2003 6:35:39 AM

VikingNo2

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The MG Tanks seem to cause allot more casualties, like the PZ-I amd the Italian MG tanks. I have been able to tear up quite a bit of things with a Mae West as well. If I could I would buy some of these in the later years of the War.

I do not have much experience with Russian equipment, so I can't comment on those

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Posting the obvious.... - 3/25/2003 7:27:45 AM

Orzel Bialy

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I utilize MG tanks in different manners according to the time period.

In pre 1941 battles the MG tank can be a decisive weapon when handled properly...and kept out of the cross-hairs of ATG's. The infantry panic they cause during the early war years can be all important to the outcome of a battle...provided you don't rush them blindly into prepared positions...and make sure that they have infantry & arty support to soften up objectives. Thus, even though they are not heavily armed or armored MG tanks still can be very valuable.

In post 41' battles some of the MG or 20mm tanks can still serve as cheap and effective "police units" for behind-the-lines duties, such as guarding arty/ammo/HQ sites. Seeing as a lot of Pbem players love using airborne, special op, partisan units to create havoc in the rear areas of your command, these cheap light tanks are perfect to use as hunter-groups. They can use their firepower, armor protection and mobility to pin down and wipe out enemy units that have landed behind your lines...or broken through at some point.

So if used within their limitations...even MG tanks can serve a valuable purpose in battles.:)

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- 3/25/2003 8:17:39 AM

AbsntMndedProf

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Orzel Bialy posted:

"In post 41' battles some of the MG or 20mm tanks can still serve as cheap and effective "police units" for behind-the-lines duties, such as guarding arty/ammo/HQ sites."

I also find the siG33 auf Pz-1 can be very effective in rear-area defense. Nothing quite takes the starch out of a partisan/special ops' unit's shorts like a nice 15cm HE shell!:D :D

Eric Maietta

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- 3/25/2003 8:20:23 AM

AbsntMndedProf

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Oh, yeah, added bonus: even though the siG33 auf Pz-1 doesn't carry many shells, if its protecting an ammo dump or ammo trucks, it can always rumble over and pick up more. :D :cool:

Eric Maietta

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- 3/26/2003 7:27:11 AM

VonRay

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The Pzkw I does a super-fine job of taking out infantry........... as long as they don't have any AT capability:o

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Hmm - 3/26/2003 10:22:58 AM

Gary Tatro

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I don't use MG tanks often. The only time I tend to use them is if there is no SPAA available for my time period. They work pretty much the same way, but tend to have more armor and less movement. I use them both MG tanks and SPAA as protection from air but more over as soft target support. They are execelent at tearing up heavy MG's, AA, and ATG's oh and infantry of course.

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- 3/27/2003 2:23:54 AM

Coolguy

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I always use Pzkfw. IIs for behind mt lines guard duty.

And after 44 the luchs with it's 50mm gun is also nice to supress those pesky airborne troops.

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- 3/27/2003 10:08:43 PM

Brutto-Bob

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I always have one platoon of MG light tanks to protect my rear area from paratroops, partisans or special forces.

They are economical and they can overrun infantry (weeled armors can't do this...).

They also have an anti-air role, because often the enemy planes choose to strike these cheap units preserving the tanks.

All light tanks with bi-MG like the italian L33 or the german panzer I are pretty good against infantry.

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- 3/28/2003 9:38:30 AM

Irinami

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The more the merrier!! MG's, that is. ;)

Honestly, most of my infantry MG crews have 1/2 the mobility of an MG tank... IF that! They can take 1-3 shots from a big gun just like an MG tank can (after being shot at 3 times by a big gun it's likely the squad is dead or the MG tank is destroyed). Every shot from an infantry squad that hits, kills a man. They CAN hide better, however, and are somewhat cheaper.

The MG Tank, on the other hand:
Is quite mobile, by and large.
Is small for an AFV.
Can be shot at all day by small arms.
Is practically guaranteed to have a radio (play early battles, you'll appreciate this).
Can draw fire--especially precious APCR--from A/T weapons.
Can threaten an infantry unit with A/T capacity such that they must either engage the MG tank and be blown away by your MBT, or engage the MBT and be torn to shreds by the MG tank (MgT? ;)).
If sitting in the middle of an open field, is not automatically dead meat (at worst it's, IMO, it's just as vulnerable as an MG team).

The MgT to me is a highly mobile machinegun with protection from small arms fire useful: 1.) in the prosecution of an advance as a forward base of fire, 2.) in the prosecution of an advance or defence as a highly mobile reserve, and 3.) in general duty as a rear-area policing and escort unit.

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- 3/28/2003 10:35:54 AM

Capt. Pixel

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]...
The MgT to me is a highly mobile machinegun with protection from small arms fire useful: 1.) in the prosecution of an advance as a forward base of fire, 2.) in the prosecution of an advance or defence as a highly mobile reserve, and 3.) in general duty as a rear-area policing and escort unit. [/B][/QUOTE]

Tha sums it up in a nutshell for me. :cool:

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- 3/29/2003 4:10:07 AM

Griefbringer

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I haven't really tried MG tanks so far - but having mostly played US so far, I have had plentiful access to M3 half-tracks packed with MGs, that can be used in a similar way to light MG tanks, and besides they can ferry a squad of infantry around the place.

Typical use for them is to ferry the infantry squad to a suitable place, and then give covering fire, keeping up a safe distance from the enemy infantry AT-weapons, and out of LoS of anything with AT capability.

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- 3/29/2003 4:33:54 AM

Irinami

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Welcome to the forums, Griefbringer. :)

I use the US halftracks (and German, for that matter) that way too. As a matter of fact, that's where I got the idea for using MG tanks. I would usually consider the H/T's in my platoons to be that platoon's MG crews. I even took the hit in command rating and would change the Company MG crews into H/T's! Better to have something that can move and fire than not. I've since learned to be a little more discriminating with the upgrades. ;)

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- 3/29/2003 4:43:06 AM

Griefbringer

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Speaking of tanks vs. infantry - what about flame-thrower tanks?

I have only tried using them a couple of times - with little success. To be able to use the flame-thrower against infantry, you have to get really close - and thus risk getting hit by their AT-weapons or assaults by hidden units. I don't know if they would be of any use against tanks (which I prefer to deal with cannons anyway). Would they be of any use against any bunkers? I always have troubles dealing with those.

However, I like the flame-throwers that my engineers pack - in addition to scorching enemy close up, they are excellent for setting terrain on fire - providing excellent screen of fire and smoke to shield one from enemy.

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- 4/1/2003 5:32:31 AM

AbsntMndedProf

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The two flame tanks I like are the Soviet T-34 with flame thrower and the British Crocodile. They have cannon, armor, and mgs that stand them in good stead against enemy armor and ATs, and two hex flame range to scorch enemy foot units hopefully before they reach assault range. The German flame tanks are good for cleaning up surpressed enemy foot units and hiding out to scorch enemy AFVs that pass by. JMHO. :D

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- 4/1/2003 5:34:59 AM

AbsntMndedProf

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GriefBringer posted:

"Would they be of any use against any bunkers?"

Does a hot knife go through butter? Just drop smoke in front of the bunker and drive your flame tank in back and toast away! Just make sure you've cleared any infantry/guns from behind the bunker with foot support or atty.

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- 4/1/2003 9:31:45 PM

Griefbringer

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I just found out that I am needing more MGs! I just started playing a WWII campaign with the Brits. Second battle - night time engagement in Northern Africa against defending Italians.

The Italians had a ton of infantry, and a bunch of not-very-effective tanks. My forces consisted of a lot of Mk III cruisers, some Mk 2 Vickers, motor infantry platoon, an artillery battery, Bren carriers with scouts, and armoured cars and LRDG forces for recon.

The Italian tanks were not a significant problem - I managed to take them out quite quickly when I met them. But the infantry, were quite a problem - they were deployed across the whole front in large numbers, so I couldn't really get around them but had to slowly chew through them to get to the objectives.

Once I started this, I first time noticed that the Mk III's that were my main strenght were not too effective against infantry - being armed with only a single MG and only AP-rounds for the 2-pounder. And after 10 rounds things started to get sticky, when I found out that there was not even much ammo for that MG and most of my cruisers were running out of it. Luckily the Italian infantry had very little chance of hurting the tanks at range, so I didn't suffer much casualties.

Luckily by this time, my flanking forces had got around the enemy flanks and rolled up the lightly defended victory hexes behind the infantry line, so victory was mine. But next time I will need to bring more firepower to deal with infantry!

Griefbringer

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- 4/2/2003 5:15:19 AM

Irinami

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Great story--I'll keep this in mind for my Long WWII, I bet the Chinese are similar.

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- 4/2/2003 9:28:53 PM

challenge

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I never gave MG tanks much thought, really. I considered assualt guns and the 20 mm on ACs and the MGs on halftracks effective enough against must infantry. After reading the first half of this thread I decided to give them a try. Very happy with the results.

Thank you for the information.

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- 4/2/2003 11:25:32 PM

Griefbringer

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Irinami: after the battle I decided to invest in some more Mk III CS variants, armed with 3.7 inch gun with HE shells - I hope those will be more effective against infantry, I had two in a previous game and they performed quite well even against tanks (early war Italian ones - not much in the way of armour). I will see how well they perform on next Sunday, when I will have time to play the next game in the campaign - meeting engagement against Italians.

I also threw out my Bren carriers, that proved to be disappointing - their single LMG was really ineffective, and they were not as mobile as I thought. I replaced them with the LRDG trucks - no armour, but more firepower, mobility and carry capacity.

I guess that if I still have troubles against the Italian infantry, I will try fielding a platoon or two of MG tanks in the next game.

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- 4/2/2003 11:39:07 PM

VikingNo2

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The British MK-IV I believe, anyway its the one with the .50 cal on it and its fast, is very good against infantry anf light armor. You can kill halftracks at range with it.

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- 4/4/2003 7:30:34 PM

Griefbringer

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Viking: I checked the encyclopedia, I guess you are referring to Mk VI. I noticed two variants, one with .50 MG and one with 15mm MG, and both had a lighter MG in addition.

I guess I am going to try fielding a platoon or two of those 15mm's - I saw recently an armoured car rip up two light Italian tanks in a row with a 15mm MG.

Griefbringer

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- 4/9/2003 2:25:36 AM

Wolfleader

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I usually just use MG tanks and scout cars to pursue retreating infantry near the end of a mission. I'm not a big fan of the PzI though and prefer to use the PzII tank (Not sure if its still qualfies as an MG tank though because of the 20mm gun it has). If not then the closest MG vehicle I use to an MG tank would be the 221 scout cars.

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Yep! - 4/12/2003 11:47:04 AM

WhiteRook

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Mg tanks are again one of those love em or hate em areas.
I like them for most of the reason Orzel stated. I also have had very good early war success with them, as in the old armor nails flesh type deal. ;)
And I have also seen some pretty nice results with them adding to AA fire as had been noted above.
Again its a matter of using them properly and all that. The nice thing about this being a game is that you can take all the time to advance your tactics with equipment, unlike the real-life battlefield! :D

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- 4/27/2003 11:00:52 PM

Kanonenfutter

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I often bought some German Ib mg-tanks. They are very effective against soft targets and cheap.

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- 5/13/2003 10:49:57 AM

arethusa

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Griefbringer
[B]Speaking of tanks vs. infantry - what about flame-thrower tanks?

I have only tried using them a couple of times - with little success. To be able to use the flame-thrower against infantry, you have to get really close - and thus risk getting hit by their AT-weapons or assaults by hidden units. I don't know if they would be of any use against tanks (which I prefer to deal with cannons anyway). Would they be of any use against any bunkers? I always have troubles dealing with those.

However, I like the flame-throwers that my engineers pack - in addition to scorching enemy close up, they are excellent for setting terrain on fire - providing excellent screen of fire and smoke to shield one from enemy. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not actually a tank but the German Flammwagon H/Ts are murder on enemy troops in cities. I recently had a large urban battle where about 6 of these units cleared out perhaps 30 attacking Russian infantry units. The Russian tanks were helpless against them also.

The trick is to get them close enough to use but in a city or heavily wooded area, that's not hard. In more open fields, either hide them around smoke shells or have them make their own smoke shelter by firing at the hex beside them.

They can frequently take out an entire infantry unit in one or at the most two burps. Even MBTs get toasted easily but of course, only if they let you get close enough again.

In defence, I placed them in the trees immediatetly behind bunkers. The bunkers get smoked but when the opponent comes in to finish up the job from behind the LOS of the bunker, he's toasted.

I've had similar success with Russian OT-34's. I tried British Crocs but found them too slow and instead used Wasps. The Wasps are really cheap, just as lethal at close range, and are much more manoeuverable than the Crocs.

The whole thing is based on visibility though. If you're fighting in open fields, forget flame vehicles. They're only use then is to make the opponent use up his ammo. But in scenarios with limited visibility, or where you can create enough smoke to make limited visibility, they are unsurpassed. Definitely a must for urban warfare!

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