Repait Times for FC Radar

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Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/25/2017 4:32:31 PM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
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Hi gang,

I am interested to know how long does it take it real life to repair radar damage sustained by a HARM missile-type of attack. In other words, if (for example), a SAM unit is struck by a HARM from a distance of 142 feet, and the FCR radar itself is listed as being damaged, is there a preset amount of time that it would take for the unit to be returned to an operational status?

Does this "damage" refer to the inner-workings of the vehicle itself as being severely damaged and a new one needs to be take its place, or is it be a situation where just a few spare parts need to be taken from a back storage shed and affixed to the antennae to make it work again?

While I don't need to actually know what needs to be done, what I am really interested in knowing is how long will it take to be be up and running again. If an attack damaged the FCR of the SAM today, would it (or could it) possibly be operational by tomorrow? Or, would it be more likely that that SAM unit is out of order for days due to the damage?

I am thinking in terms of what a campaign situation might look like as a result of a follow up attack.

Thanks in advance.

Doug

Post #: 1

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/26/2017 3:45:28 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline

Very simple. You wouldn't repair most fire control radars hit by a weapon, they'd be unrepairable. You might replace them, though if you could manage to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

Hi gang,

I am interested to know how long does it take it real life to repair radar damage sustained by a HARM missile-type of attack. In other words, if (for example), a SAM unit is struck by a HARM from a distance of 142 feet, and the FCR radar itself is listed as being damaged, is there a preset amount of time that it would take for the unit to be returned to an operational status?

Does this "damage" refer to the inner-workings of the vehicle itself as being severely damaged and a new one needs to be take its place, or is it be a situation where just a few spare parts need to be taken from a back storage shed and affixed to the antennae to make it work again?

While I don't need to actually know what needs to be done, what I am really interested in knowing is how long will it take to be be up and running again. If an attack damaged the FCR of the SAM today, would it (or could it) possibly be operational by tomorrow? Or, would it be more likely that that SAM unit is out of order for days due to the damage?

I am thinking in terms of what a campaign situation might look like as a result of a follow up attack.

Thanks in advance.

Doug

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 2

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/26/2017 4:07:24 PM

Cik

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Joined: 10/5/2016
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any impact by a modern SEAD weapon will probably totally destroy the radar and any nearby TEL/personnel.

VERY premature fuzing might only damage it but this will be likely irreperable in field conditions anyway.

AFAIK the only weapon that ever had problems completely 100% obliterating radars when hit was the shrike and that was because it was a sidewinder (and an early one at that) designed for bursting well clear of aircraft. with standards/HARMs (and other ARMs) the destruction should be reliably total.

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 3

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/26/2017 4:11:41 PM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

Thanks for responding.

Perhaps I didn't explain the situation well enough. I'm not really interested in what it takes to repair something, or whether it needs to be replaced altogether. What I'm really interested in, in game terms, is how long would a unit be "out of commission" if it suffered a HARM hit which took out its FCRs. Are there other spare parts sitting around that you can get the SAM operational again? If so, what is a reasonable amount of time that that would require? If not, does that mean that the unit is pretty much "out of commission" since all other FCR units are already in use with other SAM systems, and therefore, there are no extra FCR units available to replace the damaged one?

So, a SAM unit that loses its assigned FCR unit(s) is essentially out of commission for at least a week, if not forever. Is that right?

Thanks.

Doug

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 4

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/26/2017 4:17:20 PM

Cik

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Joined: 10/5/2016
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any modern ARM impacting a radar would turn it into charred scrap metal. the replacement times would then depend on transport/replacement capabilities of the operating power.

how many replacement radars does the country have that are within reach, and how much capability do they have to transport those systems without being interdicted? therein you will find your answer.

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 5

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/26/2017 5:05:18 PM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

Thanks for the info.

So, in most cases, it would likely take at least a few days, if not weeks, to get a replacement. For game purposes, in almost every setting then, it would appear that any unit that has suffered damage like that would probably be out of commission for the duration of our scenarios, which usually only last a few days at a time. Would you say that, in most cases, it is a safe assumption?

Thanks

Doug

(in reply to Cik)

Post #: 6

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/26/2017 7:57:56 PM

SeaQueen

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From: Washington D.C.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese
So, a SAM unit that loses its assigned FCR unit(s) is essentially out of commission for at least a week, if not forever. Is that right?

It depends. The rate at which it might be replaced really depends on things external to the game. Is the FCR indigenously produced or bought from a foreign arms supplier? If the system was supplied by a foreign supplier what is the political situation right now? How old is the system? Is it still produced? Iran, for example, probably wouldn't be able to replace any HAWK missile radars they lost due to a combination of age and politics. The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia might have had very little difficulty replacing some FCRs during Operation Allied Force, on the other hand, because they'd just take a radar from a reserve unit. On a good day they might have had it available the very next day. At some point, though, that has its limits, because they were subject to an arms embargo, so they might not be able import any new systems easily either. If the SAM system is produced locally, how quickly can replacements be manufactured and shipped?

These kinds of questions are where strategic considerations like industrial capacity and trade policy have actual operational impacts.

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 7

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/26/2017 8:12:49 PM

kevinkins

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Joined: 3/8/2006
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Yes. SAM sites, with their radar masts and trained personal are very fragile. In WW2 terms it is like a 88mm AT round hitting a scout car. You might have a scenario where a mobile SAM site is held back in reserve hiding. But I think that would be a rare tactic.

Kevin

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 8

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/27/2017 1:26:29 AM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

Thanks to everyone for the info.

So, for scenario making purposes, the rule of thumb should be that the SAM unit's repairs/replenishment/reinforcement isn't likely to occur within the confines of most scenario's listed time limits.

Doug

(in reply to kevinkins)

Post #: 9

RE: Repait Times for FC Radar - 6/27/2017 8:28:42 PM

zaytsev

Posts: 99
Joined: 6/16/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

any impact by a modern SEAD weapon will probably totally destroy the radar and any nearby TEL/personnel.

VERY premature fuzing might only damage it but this will be likely irreperable in field conditions anyway.

AFAIK the only weapon that ever had problems completely 100% obliterating radars when hit was the shrike and that was because it was a sidewinder (and an early one at that) designed for bursting well clear of aircraft. with standards/HARMs (and other ARMs) the destruction should be reliably total.

Must correct you about one thing , the (arm) AGM-45 Shrike is derivative from AIM-7 Sparrow , not Aim9 Sidewinder family.
AGM-78 Standard is derivative from Standard SAM missile , and was waaay bigger (and powerful) , more like Russian ARM's. Almost like mk82.
So, bye bye radar

Yes, Shrike wasn't very accurate, but it did work like everything radar-based from that (Vietnam) era. .. well, SA-2 was a bit better pk- wise.

Guess what AGM-130 (or something TV guided) does to radar trailer ?

.. Also with pretty good standoff range.
SA-3 Boom

(in reply to Cik)

Post #: 10