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Sonobouy Suggestion

 
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Sonobouy Suggestion - 10/29/2017 2:20:14 PM   
BeirutDude


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Perhaps an old USN TACCO or SENSO can correct me, but back in the 1980s when I was involved in ASW (S3A/B environmental forecasting actually but working closely in the ASWOC with the TACCOs/SENSOs) the aircraft would not drop active sonobouys in our barrier/containment patterns. I would suggest two things that might improve the barrier patterns

1. Only passive buoys with active reserved for classification and attack operations
2. slightly closer overlap on the buoys

Also for containment patterns, when a "Goblin" is detected once it is out of the barrier pattern the aircraft would drop a hexagonal pattern around the contact to classify and contain it. Been about 30 years so the memory might be going but that was how I remember it being done.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 10/29/2017 2:21:22 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
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I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 10/30/2017 11:43:52 PM   
ExNusquam

 

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I think proper sonobouy patterns is one of the oldest items on the Feature Request poll. Would be very nice to see.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 11/1/2017 3:27:10 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Thanks for the info. Patterns etc. are still on the list.

I've added this info to the stuff we got from the P-3 pilot (Chez) some time ago.

Mike

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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 11/1/2017 9:22:43 PM   
SeaQueen


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Actual tactics are classified, but I can tell you that depending on what the target is, active buoys of many types are perfectly valid choices. When you can't passively detect some targets at useful ranges, passive buoys are basically useless for searching, forcing one to use active buoys.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 11/4/2017 8:31:29 PM   
BeirutDude


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Thanks all.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to SeaQueen)
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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 11/6/2017 2:14:03 AM   
CV60


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Here's an idea: Rather than trying to find historical information about sonobuoy patterns, how about letting the player set the parameters for patters when estabishing the mission, using his own criteria, i.e., setting buoy spacing and types?

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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 11/6/2017 5:37:17 PM   
SeaQueen


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That's my philosophy. I think constraining people to what was done historically carries several assumptions with it:

1) That what was done in the past will continue to be done into the future, regardless of changes in technology or policy which might motivate changes in tactics. Historical tactics needn't be what is done in futuristic systems.

2) That it's actually known in the public domain what specific tactics were executed. In some cases this is true, there are few deep dark secrets in infantry tactics, often there's great historical data, but in the case of ASW, probably not. Since WWII there's been few wars fought with extensive ASW battles, hence there's lots of room for experimentation. In the case of new technologies and near future scenarios, it may not really be known what the best tactics actually are. That's part of why think-tanks get paid lots of money to play war games and experiment with weapons and tactics before they're ever employed in the hope of having some sense what the best thing to do is. Command is cool because it lets anyone experiment similarly and form their own opinions and insights.

3) That the player always wants to do what was done historically. One of the fun bits of this game is the ability to second guess what was actually done, so even if it is known, wargamers are able to possibly gain insight by questioning what was done. Very often historical decisions on tactics are constrained by things that aren't always easily accounted for in the game. The player then gets to play around with what was done versus what might have been done. I think there's a tendency among wargamers to over simply military people, and assume that what was done was always the best possible thing. Sometimes it's not. Often decisions are made in the face of tremendous uncertainty. Often those uncertainties are difficult to quantify, particularly things like the other side's intentions. Wargamers, given the benefit of hindsight, can sometimes make decisions which are better than what was done.

So yeah... just my $0.02.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CV60

Here's an idea: Rather than trying to find historical information about sonobuoy patterns, how about letting the player set the parameters for patters when estabishing the mission, using his own criteria, i.e., setting buoy spacing and types?

quote:

Here's an idea: Rather than trying to find historical information about sonobuoy patterns, how about letting the player set the parameters for patters when estabishing the mission, using his own criteria, i.e., setting buoy spacing and types?


< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 11/6/2017 5:39:27 PM >

(in reply to CV60)
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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 11/15/2017 11:04:17 PM   
BeirutDude


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CV60 I.m good with that. I just hate seeing the AI wasting active sonobouys but also hate micromanaging the planes to set up the patterns! Supposed to be a Battlegroup Commander not a TACCO I’d be happy to have a mission option to only drop passive sonobouys until contact and then IF the player wants to drop a few active in the pattern manually their choice.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to CV60)
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RE: Sonobouy Suggestion - 11/16/2017 2:39:57 AM   
CV60


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quote:

CV60 I.m good with that. I just hate seeing the AI wasting active sonobouys but also hate micromanaging the planes to set up the patterns! Supposed to be a Battlegroup Commander not a TACCO I’d be happy to have a mission option to only drop passive sonobouys until contact and then IF the player wants to drop a few active in the pattern manually their choice.


I agree that micromanaging the bouy pattern is a bit of a pain. I usually don't do it, but sometimes the AI needs a bit of a hand. One other aspect that would be nice is to allow MPA to take over monitoring an existing sonobouy field, rather than laying its own field. Possibly require a "turn over" period of time with the departing MPA. That would encourage the players to do a bit more planning on ONSTA and OFFSTA times

(in reply to BeirutDude)
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