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Patrol waypoints, not area

 
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Patrol waypoints, not area - 11/30/2017 11:11:30 PM   
Gunnn

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 11/30/2017
Status: offline 		Hello, I'm new to Command and I've already got a long list of problems, but one that annoys me to the point I'm writing this in the middle of the night because I NEED an answer, is this: how do I make an airplane go from point A, to point B, to point C, while operating normally?

I DO WANT my fighter to take-off, go to point A, turn on its radar and follow to points B and C like a good boy, then maybe loop or go home and if it (or the AEW) spots a contact, I want it to go investigate it.

I DO NOT WANT my fighter to go to an area and wiggle around randomly like a confused sperm.

Methods:

1) Strike mission. Doesn't work, since there's no pre-defined target.
2) AAW patrol. Doesn't work, because the fighter interprets reference points as area instead of waypoints.
3) Support mission. This seems to be the only way to make stuff follow a pre-defined path in Command. I haven't tried this fully yet, so I don't know how the fighter AI on a support mission will respond to enemy contacts and at the very least, I don't expect to have any control over it (the Investigate rules are only available in the mission editor for Patrol mission, as far as I know).
3) Manual control. Unacceptable, because I want many flights to do the exact same thing and not micromanage the waypoints of every craft.

It's the simplest thing in the world. In the DCS editor, you simply spawn an airplane, click "add waypoint" and it will follow said waypoints and engage anything it encounters. In reality, it would be one of the simplest orders you could give someone. "Search for enemies along this path". But in Command, surprisingly the ability to make literal patrols not only seems to be absent, but replaced with "make random searches in this area", which I'm surprised it even exists. How is "emulate Brownian motion" more essential than "go here"?

I'm going to try again tomorrow and maybe use a multi-mission approach, where I first use a "transit route" support mission to make my fighters fly close to the battlefield, then plot courses manually and assign them to an opposite transit support mission so they automatically follow it home once they have flown the plotted course.

I figure I should be able to set up something like an A-10 strike against unidentified targets (meaning Strike mission doesn't work), while following waypoints (meaning Patrol mission doesn't work) in the same way, by making support missions leading to and from the ingress point and hoping I don't forget to manually assign them actual attack orders when they reach the ingress.

A little sloppy thread I know, but this is very basic functionality that I can't find anywhere in the game and it baffles me!

Also, I may as well ask too if there's any way to manually investigate contacts? The only way I can tell one of my airplanes to go check out a contact is to order full-scale attack... and it's probably just an airliner full of nuns and orphans! It would be very nice to be able to set my fighter sweeps to not investigate anything, but then order it manually. Note that this is with Mk1 Eyeballs, so basically I need a "follow", or "escort" command. By the way, such a command would be tremendously useful for escorting AEWs as well.

< Message edited by Gunnn -- 11/30/2017 11:16:40 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 12:15:49 AM   
ExNusquam

 

Posts: 513
Joined: 3/4/2014
From: Washington, D.C.
Status: offline 		Support mission with "engage opportunity targets" will do exactly what you want. Aircraft will follow the path unless they detect a contact - they will investigate it and kill it if they have available weapons. Additionally, you can create barrier patrols with only two reference points; aircraft will simply go back and forth between them, while investigating appropriate contacts in their prosecution areas.

(in reply to Gunnn)
Post #: 2
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 12:26:03 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think a slightly less aggressive and demeaning attitude might also HELP.

(in reply to ExNusquam)
Post #: 3
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 1:54:03 AM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExNusquam

Support mission with "engage opportunity targets" will do exactly what you want. Aircraft will follow the path unless they detect a contact - they will investigate it and kill it if they have available weapons. Additionally, you can create barrier patrols with only two reference points; aircraft will simply go back and forth between them, while investigating appropriate contacts in their prosecution areas.


Yes this sounds about right, Support missions have the assigned units follow an RP based route.

(in reply to ExNusquam)
Post #: 4
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 4:00:18 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline 		"Wiggle around like a confused sperm"

Graphic, but very descriptive. I like it.

It definitely painted a perfect image in my mind, and through your "extremely descriptive" analogy, I not only laughed my head off, but I can easily envision exactly what you are trying to say.

Brilliant!

Doug

(in reply to Gunnn)
Post #: 5
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 4:45:18 AM   
Gunnn

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 11/30/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExNusquam

Support mission with "engage opportunity targets" will do exactly what you want. Aircraft will follow the path unless they detect a contact - they will investigate it and kill it if they have available weapons. Additionally, you can create barrier patrols with only two reference points; aircraft will simply go back and forth between them, while investigating appropriate contacts in their prosecution areas.

Thanks, that's literally the last alternative I could think of. The manual only says a single word that suggests "Support" missions can be assigned to aircraft other than support aircraft (it mentions reconnaissance) and none of the included 1st or 3rd party tutorials or even community content I've found makes any mention of it. And to me, it's very unintuitive that a "Patrol" isn't the correct terminology for what I'm describing and that "Patrol" in-game isn't rather some kind of "Area search". Is there any military precedent for this? Any logic to it? Are area search missions called "Patrol" by the Air Force or Navy in reality? Anyway, I'm a mission designer and if I ever end up creating content for Command, this seems like something to have in Tutorial number 1!

I might create another thread with 1st impressions, other issues I've had in the first 24 hours of gameplay and such at a later date. This issue really kept me scratching my head though.

Also, this community is very responsive! Especially devs from what I've seen.

< Message edited by Gunnn -- 12/1/2017 4:53:02 AM >

(in reply to ExNusquam)
Post #: 6
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 4:51:38 AM   
Gunnn

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 11/30/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

"Wiggle around like a confused sperm"

Graphic, but very descriptive. I like it.

It definitely painted a perfect image in my mind, and through your "extremely descriptive" analogy, I not only laughed my head off, but I can easily envision exactly what you are trying to say.

Brilliant!

Doug

I'm a biologist First random movement that came to mind.

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 7
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 5:50:26 PM   
SeaQueen


Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunnn
And to me, it's very unintuitive that a "Patrol" isn't the correct terminology for what I'm describing and that "Patrol" in-game isn't rather some kind of "Area search". Is there any military precedent for this? Any logic to it? Are area search missions called "Patrol" by the Air Force or Navy in reality? Anyway, I'm a mission designer and if I ever end up creating content for Command, this seems like something to have in Tutorial number 1!


It depends. In some cases yes, they are. Command is doctrine neutral, intended to reflect the tactics and behaviors of many different nations and service branches. As such, a wide variety of terms could be attached to many different behaviors. It's best not to fixate on the terms and instead focus on the behaviors represented, because terminology can vary widely between nations, service branches, and even organizations within a service branch. For example, in the US Navy a 2-aircraft formation is referred to as a "section," while in the US Air Force it's an "element." Similarly in the USAF "SEAD" is pronounced "SEED" and in the USN it's pronounced "SEE-AD." The important bit is less the word and more that you're able to produce the desired behavior.

(in reply to Gunnn)
Post #: 8
RE: Patrol waypoints, not area - 12/1/2017 10:59:44 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline 		Going back to your question about manual investigation, what I usually do is to select a flight that is on CAP for example, or launch a new flight of two, and plot a manual intercept course to the unknown contact. That keeps it from being designated hostile by ordering an attack, and protects the potentially civilian air traffic. The investigating aircraft fly close enough to ID and then you can order whatever action is appropriate. A little micromanagement.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to SeaQueen)
Post #: 9
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