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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Long road to Victory

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Long road to Victory - 5/31/2001 6:17:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
Joined: 6/26/2000
From: Ontario Canada
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WB you were watching Star Trek when you made this campaign weren't you? I'm currently fighting the third battle against some Italians in town and facing a German panzer counterattack. I've watched the German counterattack appear in mid map. A platoon of Pz IVh's, at least two platoons of Pzgrd's and a section of 88's. Fortunatly for me, unfortunatly for them, they appeared in the middle of my units. One 88 and Sdzfk 7 appeared in the same hex as one of my recon jeep. After 2 turns the 88's, and about 3/4 of the two inf platoons are toast and two of the PzIV's are damaged. I dont want to sound like I'm telling you how to design scenarios WB but how can I set up defences when the enemy uses a Star Trek transporter to arrive on the battlefield? If the German units had of arrived another turn maybe two turns later they would have been well inside my defenses. The italians in town were routed or dead and I was starting to deploy for the expected German counterattack. All I ask is that scenario designers use the map edge for entry points for reinforcements instead of having them "infiltrate" past the enemy. Dismounted infantry I can understand but certainly not the mechanized force I faced could be expected to infiltrate its way onto the battlefield. I'm sure I'm gonna get pelted with comments for knocking WB's design skills but I honestly believe I have a valid point here. Dont take this the wrong way WB I am in awe of your dedication to the game and your scenarios and campaigns you design for SP. Keep up the great work!

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- 5/31/2001 6:50:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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I appreciate the kind words, Mac! No problem with criticizing. That is how we make them better. Its been awhile since I designed these particular battles and I'll have to look this one up. If you could be more precise as to which one, it would help. The third battle depends on how you did in the first two. I'm rather surprised since this particular section of "The Long Road" was actually the battles from "Preparing the Way, done way back when." Without knowing with certainty just what happened, it could be a number of things. It could be that you got further than is normally done in the battle, OR it could be that I was trying to indicate the unexpected in war. I have read numerous accounts of enemy units that seemingly appeared out of nowhere. Poor intelligence just did not pick them up...land, sea and air. The Bulge, Midway, Pearl Harbor, Tet, all are examples of this very fact. And if you add the fog of war it makes such a thing even more possible. Finally if you choose a different route from the expected one, this can happen. It should not, but it can. I'll try to find the one that you mentioned and see just what is happening. I appreciate the note. Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to McGib)

Post #: 2

- 5/31/2001 7:26:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
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From: Ontario Canada
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I'm glad you took it as constructive critisism Bill, I figured you would. The battle I am refering too is described as the first battle in Sicily. I got dv's on the first two. I sent my forces along the south side of the town coming up behind two platoons of the paratroops you so kindly gave to me :) I dont think I got any further than anyone could be expected too. And as I recall you and I had a similiar discusion about the first battle in "Preparing the way" about a platoon of French tanks that appeared amongst my shermans(This was some time ago obvisouly) I understand what you mean about the fog of war and such, I guess what got me was the AI's units appearing amongst mine in the middle of a fairly large area with no cover(the two platoons of pzgrds anyway). What I would consider more (realistic?) would be for the German units to come on to the map from the same side(east side) as I started from or something like that and not just appear 15 or so hexes into the map. I've never designed a scenario so I dont know all the details to placing the AI's units and setting objectives etc, so what you put into the battle may have been the only way for the desired effect. I'm certainly not looking for a fix, just wanted to point this out to you.

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- 5/31/2001 9:09:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
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Good, you've pinpointed it well. Now I'll go check it out. No problem with the mention or the discussion. We can all learn from it, including me. I do remember now the discussion about the French tanks. That was a case of timing, I believe. This could be too. If they are reinforcements they need to either enter sooner or further away, .... I think. But let me look first WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to McGib)

Post #: 4

- 5/31/2001 9:18:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
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From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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I did take a look. I'm wondering. Did the Germans appear in the midst of your paratroopers or your core force. I can easily see where the paras would suddenly find themselves int the middle of a German advance. Darby's Rangers did that in the battle of Cisterna. Tigers and panzergrenadiers all over them or another instance of a scenario series on the diversionary raid on Choiseul by 2nd Marine Parachute Btn in Oct-Nov, 1943. If you had gotten that far with your core force, you must have been flanking the town, which is possible. In that case you would have run across them unexpectedly. Again, Mac, thanks for the note, Mate! Now, you got anything on the New Zealanders and the Treasury Island invasion? :D ...WB

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to McGib)

Post #: 5

- 5/31/2001 9:39:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
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From: Ontario Canada
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Thats exactly what I did WB. Figured I'd use the para's to smoke out the enemy and then hit em with my core force. I'd suggest moving the infantry farther south and the 88's further out in any direction, they appear FAR to close for there own good. I spotted the Pz IV's only cause I raced some Greyhounds to the north-east of the town looking for the counterattack, actually I had recon units racing out to the four corners of the map looking for Jerry(played to many of your scenarios Bill) The Germans appeared immediatly to the right of my core force some units were 2-3 hexes away from each other. Now about these Kiwi's and Treasury Island???? :confused:

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- 5/31/2001 9:55:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
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From: Ontario Canada
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If you want WB I'll send you a copy of my saved game tomorrow so you can see where my units are and how close the Germans appeared.

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- 5/31/2001 7:35:00 PM

Resisti

Posts: 1351
Joined: 1/22/2001
From: Livorno, Italy
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Hi. I found myself in such a situation several times,too,also in the battle here mentioned. After having played several campaigns,I reached the personal convinction that most of campaign designers are using the reinforcement hexes,as well as the amount of forces given to the AI,as a way to TRY balancing the, of course,superior human skill. Let's just try to design a campaign where you have the real historic forces given to the AI,its reinforcements hexes properly set on the map edge and then try to play it: a mortal annoyance!! So,despite the fact I,too,believe sometimes reinf.hexes for AI are located in "unusual" places, I'm now used to live with it considering it as a way to make the challenge a bit more hard and funny.

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Federico "Resisti" Doveri

(in reply to McGib)

Post #: 8

- 5/31/2001 10:34:00 PM

RolandRahn_MatrixForum

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Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Beloit, USA
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Hello everybody, I have one question regarding this campaign: The second scenario (Morocco ALT, node 001) takes place on November 11, 1939. Therefore, I can't purchase [put in Shermans, Grants, e.t.c.]. Is this deliberately done to prevent the player from benefitting loosing the first battle or is it a bug? Kind regards, Roland

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- 5/31/2001 10:35:00 PM

Wild Bill

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That is indeed one of the reasons they are placed as they are, but I think your point is well taken. I'd like to see the save file, so feel free to send it to me. WB

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to McGib)

Post #: 10

- 6/1/2001 5:52:00 AM

McGib

Posts: 395
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From: Ontario Canada
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Saved game is on its way to you WB

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- 6/1/2001 7:20:00 PM

Alexandra

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From: USA
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Here's how I look, most of the time, at the 'beamed in' reinforcements. In something like Stalingrad, when Sov infantry appear in strange places, it's easy enough to understand. The Sov's did train squads to use sewers, or to hide in basements and attics, and wait for the Germans to take a place, drive on, and then pop out of hiding and hit them in the rear. For things like Sicily, it's also understandable. A small unit is resting as you kick off the attack. It takes time for them to get ready for battle, toss of camo nets, get vehicles started, etc. In the meantime you've advanced, and so they suddenly appear. While it can be annoying, it's also neat, and makes you worry about flank and rear secuirity all the time, which irl commanders have to do, and so adds some realism to the fights. Alex

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- 6/2/2001 1:11:00 AM

Wild Bill

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Some very good points to ponder, Alex...WB

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to McGib)

Post #: 13