Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking actually works?

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Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking actuall... - 10/20/2017 2:17:55 PM

OxfordGuy3

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Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking actually works (in 1.10)? The manual says:

"Friendly HQs with a supply value of at least 3 can be linked in a chain to supply other HQs over extended distances. The friendly HQ receiving the supply can receive an increased supply value up to a maximum value of 5, and this will raise its supply distribution value to a maximum of 8. The engine will seek to make lower rated HQs provide supply for higher rated ones, rather than vice versa. "

What I don't understand is - how is this affected by distance? Does the receiving HQ have to be within the command range of the other HQ? How is the amount of supply the receiving HQ calculated - does it just receive supply from the other HQ like other units do (wasn't like this in 1.08, as far as I could tell)?

e.g. say I have an HQ with supply 3 (so has a distribution value of 8) and it's 3 (clear) hexes away from another HQ, that otherwise would only have supply 2 (e.g. it's next to a resource with supply 3 only), how much supply will the receiving HQ get from the other one and what will it's distribution value be?

If the source HQ has a supply value of 5 or 6 (distribution value 8 or 10), how much supply would the receving HQ get in the above situation.

Do both HQs have to be of the same country, or can Italian HQs boost German HQs and vice-versa?

In low supply areas, like North Africa, this is pretty critical!

< Message edited by oxford_guy -- 10/20/2017 2:52:01 PM >

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 8:05:24 AM

OxfordGuy3

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So no one really understands how this mechanism works?

< Message edited by oxford_guy -- 10/21/2017 8:10:43 AM >

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 11:09:30 AM

GeneralFerraro

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I think that we need a tutorial for this particular issue. Could some kind soul write a tutorial as to how to link HQ's??

This question was always important,and it is even more crucial now, particulary with the new rules regarding supply for air units. I haven't seen any clear explanation as to how to link HQ's anywhere. And the supply for air units needs some clarification as well, oxford-guy has some excellent questions regarding this subject in another post, I will quote that in a future post of mine in this thread, it would be great if we could unify that information...

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 12:39:43 PM

Sugar

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quote:

- HQs can now only be linked if the first HQ has a supply value >= 3, lowered from a previous threshold of >= 5.

Change in V 1.10.

The 1. HQ in the link is working as a new supply-source, just like cities, towns or ports.

Keep in mind that not the distance is decisive for the amount of supply, but movement-costs.

It doesn`t matter of which origin an HQ is, italian as well as minors will do the trick for all Axis-HQs. Planes not linked up to the best possible HQ will receive their supply from the next ressource (if not an HQ), so if you place them in cities with 6 supply, they will also receive 6 supply, no matter the distance to their HQ.

Example: assuming the hexes between a ressource, the 1. and the 2. HQ all have a movement-cost of 1, and the ressource is a town producing 5, you can place the 1. HQ 2 hexes away from the town. It will produce 8 supply itself, and the 2. HQ further 5 hexes away (receiving 3 supply from the 1.) will also deliver 8 supply.

The second HQ in the link will never deliver more than 8 supply. The Command Rating of the HQs also doesn`t matter.

< Message edited by Sugar -- 10/21/2017 12:46:55 PM >

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 1:32:25 PM

sPzAbt653

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I have been wanting to do a tutorial for this, but the rules have been modified a lot so I have been waiting. However, I can give you a simple example [using v1.10].

The HQ in this screenshot will trace supply from one of three resources shown. It will use the best that it can trace, you can trace it yourself one hex at a time from Stalingrad [which has a Supply Level of '6'] to the HQ - 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - so the trace from Stalingrad will get the HQ a Supply Level of '1'. The other two locations are too far away and have too low a Supply Level to provide anything but '0'.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 1:33:13 PM

sPzAbt653

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Now let's look at this 6.Army HQ located in Stalingrad. Stalingrad has a Supply Value of 6, so the 6.Army HQ has a Supply Level of 6, and a Supply Distribution Value of 10 [which reads as 6(10) in the Unit Report]. If Stalingrad had a Supply Value of 5, then the HQ would be at 5(8).

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 1:33:54 PM

sPzAbt653

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Now let's look at a HQ Link. Based on the previous screen shots, the 17.Army HQ should be at a Supply Level of '1', but it is Linked to the 6.Army HQ at Stalingrad and thereby is at a Supply Level of '5'. Because the 6.Army HQ at Stalingrad has a Supply Distribution Value of '10', you can now trace from Stalingrad hex by hex - 10, 9, 8, etc. - and the trace puts the 17.Army at Supply Level 5 with a Supply Distribution Value of '8'.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 1:35:16 PM

sPzAbt653

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Note that once you add in more Resources and HQ's to the situation, the more difficult it may be to figure out what is going on [as seen in this screen shot]. There are still times when I can't figure things out myself. In the areas where it matters most [Russia and Africa] I've taken to the practice of keeping pairs of HQ's close to each other and separated from others so as not to muddle things up.

Concerning Air Units, they must be attached to a HQ, otherwise they will only trace from Resources. This presents little issue in areas close to home, but in low level supply areas it will handicap your Air Units to not have enough HQ's to attach them.

Currently, these links are performed by the game engine, but it might be a nice future addition if it could be done manually by the player [as we can now do with attaching units to specific HQ's].

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 2:15:29 PM

Fintilgin

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Might help visualization too if, when you clicked on a HQ it would show a line or something drawn to the HQ it's taking or giving supply to.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 2:17:51 PM

GeneralFerraro

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Excellent explanation by Sugar and absolutely amazing tutorial by sPzAbt653. Now I get this whole issue much much better. Deeply obliged to you gentlemen!!!

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 3:45:57 PM

Harrybanana

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Excellent stuff Sugar and sPzAbt653, thank you very much. Wish I had this explanation before I launched my invasion of Tunisia from Libya in my last turn.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 3:56:26 PM

James Taylor

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So terrain and weather(mud) have no effect on the hex count from HQ to HQ to resource?

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 4:15:42 PM

Sugar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

So terrain and weather(mud) have no effect on the hex count from HQ to HQ to resource?

The weather has no effect, but you`ll have to calculate the movement costs: every single additional point of movement costs reduces the max. possible distance by 1 each.

You may check your placement by hitting the "S"-button twice, it shows the calcualtion of supply in the following turn.

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me]

[/URL][/image]

After placing the HQ too far from its ressource (Voronesh), it will provide just 5 supply in the next turn.

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me]

[/URL][/image]

Supply-Chaining: the operated HQ near Voronesh is providing 8 supply, the receiving HQ (3 hexes further, with 1 forrest costing 2 movement points) receives 4 supply and will provide 8.

< Message edited by Sugar -- 10/21/2017 4:41:36 PM >

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 8:53:15 PM

James Taylor

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OK I challenge the community. Set up a German held corridor in the USSR from Cherkasy to Sumy to Kursk with Kursk still possessed by USSR.

Put 3 German HQs in that corridor, Sumy will be cut off from other connections but still German held.

Now move those HQs around in that corridor and observe the supply overlays, present and future.

Can anyone on this planet explain those results. I can get the overlay to change by moving an HQ one hex, then move it back(same hex as origin) and it will be different and Sumy will actually change in supply value. Sumy can be 4 supply as its cut-off, then the next turn(still cut-off) it will be 5 again, overlay changing constantly depending on different HQ positions.

SC has been like this since day one, especially in this Sumy area.

There is no reasonable pattern. I don't have a problem with it as supply should be variable from intangibles in the first place, but I want everyone to know it, deal with it.

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SeaMonkey

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 10:11:42 PM

Sugar

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I don`t understand exactly what you mean; if you move HQs around, I`d expect the overlay to change after every movement. The prediction is meant to forecast the amount of supply in a special hex if the HQs stay where they are at the moment (and in the next turn by hitting the "S" twice), to show where you can place other units in favorable supply.

Keep in mind that units will always receive the most possible supply (except not linked planes), either from a ressource or from an HQ, and that ressources recover from the "scorched earth"-effect (by one each turn up to their max., which will be 5 in case of towns and 6 in case of cities), which will also be pedicted correctly.

If you`re placing a unit in Sumy wich produces 4 supply, the following turn it will receive 5 supply. If the unit in Sumy has an HQ 2 hexes behind, which produces 8 supply, the unit will receive 6 supply this and the following turn (if nothing changes).

Of course there are many events influencing supply which can not be calculated, like partisan attacks, loss of HQ-strengthpoints, siege-effect, or ressource attacks by bombers, ships or rail guns.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 10:22:13 PM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

Can anyone on this planet explain those results.

I can try, but only if you provide a detailed screenshot

quote:

supply should be variable from intangibles in the first place

I can agree, but if you know the rules and study the situation, you will see that it is consistent. Generally, I don't study it too much as most of the time it is not that important, but in some circumstances, such as an offensive in the Western Desert, it is necessary to do some planning and calculating before hand. Keep in mind that, as of this posting, only one HQ can be linked, so attempting to chain three or more does nothing.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 10:25:37 PM

sPzAbt653

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I will also mention that I haven't 'hit S twice' in about a year. I found that the computer projection can be misleading, and once I understood the rules it was much better for me to make a prediction [and faster].

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/21/2017 11:59:15 PM

James Taylor

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If Sumy is cut off(no road link & there is no rail) and it degrades to 4 supply that turn and remains that way for the next turn, how does it go up to 5 supply?

Since you can move an HQ one hex and check the future supply overlay then move it back to the exact same hex it originally started from you'd expect the future supply overlay to replicate its original display, right. Wrong!

No other units are moving and all supply giving resources are at 5.

Don't take my word for it, model it, if you're really interested.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/22/2017 12:33:59 AM

James Taylor

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OK I tracked down the problem(one of them), Sumy will waffle back and forth from 4 to 5 supply turn after turn.

In hotseat you can just park an HQ(German) there with Konotop and Kharkov(the road links) in Russian hands and observe as you end turn time after time, no unit movements.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/22/2017 1:17:44 AM

Sugar

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Sorry James,

you were right. Also other of those towns without railroad are waffling, and further more in different rhythms:

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me]

[/URL][/image]

What I don`t know is if it`s WAD or just a bug.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/23/2017 6:00:33 PM

Hubert Cater

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Definitely not WAD, I'll investigate this as well.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/23/2017 6:20:53 PM

OxfordGuy3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fintilgin

Might help visualization too if, when you clicked on a HQ it would show a line or something drawn to the HQ it's taking or giving supply to.

That would certainly help.

BTW thanks everyone for the explanations, I *think* I understand this a little better now

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/23/2017 6:52:27 PM

sPzAbt653

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Hi Hubert - if we are talking about the same thing, I have seen it mostly in this area. The USSR has been conquered for about two years and nothing has been happening around here combat or possession-wise. Yet, some of the '5' rated resources alternate between 4 and 5 about every other turn. This shot is from 1.9.07 as it was the only one I had that showed it clearly. I might guess that USSR resources that are not connected to a rail experience this.

EDIT: This was a bug that was corrected in v1.11

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< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 2/7/2018 11:03:40 AM >

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/23/2017 8:11:51 PM

GeneralFerraro

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BY THE WAY, IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION ABOUT AIR SUPPLY

In another thread, which I said I was going to transcribe here, Oxford Guy asked the following question, answered by Hubert Cater

. Enjoy:

QUESTION: oxford_guy -- 10/22/2017 2:41:19 PM > I'm aware that in 1.10 Air Units need to be attached to HQs to benefit from any improved supply that HQs give, but what happens if at the start of the turn the unit isn't attached to an HQ, but you then attach it to an HQ during that turn - does its supply increase to what it would have been if it had been attached to the HQ at the start of the turn? Also, is it's supply level determined only by supply from the attached HQ, not any other nearby HQs? Is there any penalty from changing which HQ it is attached to during the turn? Does this also affect games in-progress (I assume so)? Thanks!

ANSWER BY HUBERT CATER: Supply is calculated at the beginning of the turn, so any changes in attachments, whether you are attaching or detaching, will not be considered until the following turn. Air units will only gain improved supply from the HQ it is attached to, and there is no supply penalty on the turn that you might change which HQ an air unit is attached to as the air unit starts and finishes the turn with its calculated supply from the beginning of the turn supply calculations

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/25/2017 11:14:35 AM

Splatsch

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Thanks to all people for taking the time to explain & help, this is really appreciated

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/25/2017 12:48:54 PM

OxfordGuy3

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Actually having seen my latest 1.10 PBEM turn come back, I'm still confused, or do linked HQs never receive more than 3 or 4 supply?

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/25/2017 1:20:45 PM

Sugar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3

Actually having seen my latest 1.10 PBEM turn come back, I'm still confused, or do linked HQs never receive more than 3 or 4 supply?

Of course they do (if placed correctly, they`ll provide 8 at max.), please send screenshot.

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/25/2017 1:44:34 PM

Hubert Cater

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Hi Oxford,

The simplest way to think of how this works would be something like the following:

- HQ1 under normal supply conditions due to its position and distance from the nearest supply resource has a supply value < 3 (think deep in the USSR for example)

- HQ2 has a supply value >= 3 giving it in this case a minimum distribution supply value of 8

HQ2, if within distribution supply range of HQ1, can now link and boost the supply value of HQ1 to 5, giving HQ1 a supply distribution value of 8. This linking is automatically handled by the engine as no action is required by the player to make this happen other than to have the units in the right positions and distances from each other considering the rules above.

If HQ1 was not linked to HQ2 then HQ1 would have a lower distribution supply value of 5.

That's it in a nutshell and hopefully this helps,
Hubert

< Message edited by Hubert Cater -- 10/25/2017 1:47:43 PM >

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/25/2017 4:10:33 PM

OxfordGuy3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hi Oxford,

The simplest way to think of how this works would be something like the following:

- HQ1 under normal supply conditions due to its position and distance from the nearest supply resource has a supply value < 3 (think deep in the USSR for example)

- HQ2 has a supply value >= 3 giving it in this case a minimum distribution supply value of 8

HQ2, if within distribution supply range of HQ1, can now link and boost the supply value of HQ1 to 5, giving HQ1 a supply distribution value of 8. This linking is automatically handled by the engine as no action is required by the player to make this happen other than to have the units in the right positions and distances from each other considering the rules above.

If HQ1 was not linked to HQ2 then HQ1 would have a lower distribution supply value of 5.

That's it in a nutshell and hopefully this helps,
Hubert

If HQ1 has a supply value of 3 or 4 (without linking) does that mean it will not get linked to HQ2, even though HQ2 would be able to give supply 5 (or more?) to that hex? At supply 5 you can upgrade, at supply 3 or 4 you can't... If it only had 2 supply, would HQ1 go to 5 supply due to linking (if no other candidate)?

Also is 5 the max supply that can be given to the linked HQ (which means the linked HQ would have -1 AP and max distribution supply of 8)?

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RE: Can someone explain to me better how HQ linking act... - 10/26/2017 12:49:16 AM

Hubert Cater

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Not allowing an HQ1 at supply value 3 or 4 to be boosted to 5 via linking looks to have been an oversight on our part when it comes to the fact that a 3 or 4 HQ cannot perform any upgrades. Initially the feeling was that it made little sense to boost it as it was already at a supply distribution of 8, but I can see the merit of also boosting it now to 5 even if it doesn't change the distribution supply.

Otherwise yes, 5 is the max supply that can be given to a linked HQ, as otherwise it could possibly have a distribution supply of 10 and that was the original problem we had with the whole system as it gave Axis HQs that would otherwise be in low supply, maximum supply deep in low supply areas and as a result too much of an advantage to the Axis side.

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