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Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe?

 
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Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/22/2019 10:50:52 PM   
Timotheus

 

Posts: 481
Joined: 12/13/2013
Status: offline 		Playing a comp as allies. Had to withdraw one of those big passenger liners (Dickson). Ran it into Perth, then ran it into Sydney. Or tried to. I forgot to add in ASW escort as it was approaching Sydney and of course it got torpedoed by a Japanese submarine.

Unfortunately, the ship survived and limped into Sydney.

According to https://witp-ae.fandom.com/wiki/Unit_Withdrawal,
I have way too much damage. I have 60 damage in one category, and 90 in another. Repairing the ship will take 100+ days.

The penalty for not withdrawing the ship on time is... 20 victory points.... DAILY?

Is that right?

If that is so, it would be much better for me to do everything possible for it to sink instead of trying to save it... The ship's VP is 20 points, which means that I will "eat" the equivalent of an un-withdrawn ship victory points EVERY DAY.

Wow!

That is incredibly harsh penalty!

In an MP game, I would have done the "Gamey" thing and just done everything to sink the ship to not lose that many VP!

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RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/22/2019 10:54:39 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Send it back out to sea towards west coast. It will sink on it's own. You have to do what you have to do. So yes the PP penalty is daily....GP

< Message edited by btd64 -- 6/22/2019 10:56:04 PM >

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RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/22/2019 10:55:30 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Would you like the Suez Canal to open on schedule? Would you like an Australian division to be released to your theatre when the game says it will? Then withdraw the flipping ship to the ETO.

(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 3
RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/22/2019 10:55:40 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The penalty for failure to withdraw is political points, not victory points.

The political point system and the withdrawal system are complex parts of the game that take getting used to. With experience, you learn how to manage it as efficiently as possible. Sometimes, inevitably, hard situations develop such as you describe. I recall a game in which Q-Ball (an old-timer long gone now) had an R-Class RN BB badly damaged and overdue for withdrawal. Rather than incur the PP penalties on an ongoing basis, he suicided that ship by steaming right to the enemy.

Our game is very mature, so adjustments aren't likely to be made to systems like this. We get used to it. No big deal, just part of our beloved game.

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Post #: 4
RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/22/2019 11:02:01 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Yes, nothing will be changed on the withdrawal penalty system, but it is really too bad they did not put a cap on the PP penalty total that one ship can incur.

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RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/22/2019 11:40:23 PM   
Timotheus

 

Posts: 481
Joined: 12/13/2013
Status: offline 		"The penalty for failure to withdraw is political points"

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I missed that.

Still harsh but not as much.

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Post #: 6
RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/23/2019 1:04:18 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Loss of political points has actual consequences. Loss of victory points doesn't really. Mostly we all know when we've won or lost, the victory point system is just thrown in as a guide, if I'm being generous.

(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 7
RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/23/2019 1:06:55 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I disagree, Geoff. I've said it before, as have others - the victory point system is elegant and an excellent measurement of performance in the game. And it gives the Japanese player a material reason to stick it out and play. Those who poo-poo the victory point system just haven't thought it through.

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Post #: 8
RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/23/2019 7:40:47 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		Different players have different styles and there are Japanese-side players who don't need victory points to stick it out and play - no need to denigrate them.

I think the VP system is great for the "AE is a game / anything goes players" who need a measure of their success because they want to "win the game" - but not so much for the "AE is a history simulation / role players" for whom the "journey is the reward" and who care less about the VPs and "winning the game".

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 6/23/2019 2:52:29 PM >

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RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/23/2019 1:55:17 PM   
MBF

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/25/2008
Status: offline 		Nicely said LST :-)

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Post #: 10
RE: Is the penalty for not withdrawing a ship too severe? - 6/24/2019 8:29:32 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		It may not be historical, but many Allied players have adjusted to these withdrawals and keep these vessels out of harms way long before they due to withdraw. Just one work around to deal with the situation.

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Post #: 11
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