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Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 5:02:06 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Ga'day All

Newbie here, have been playing against the AI since purchasing the game last summer. Yes, I started in playing a GC, since most of the PBEM seems to be some sort of GC.

Am playing Scn#26 BabesLite A, stock map, Dec 7th start.. Like the idea of some of the additional ships, and I have not yet master making changes in the Editor to add some conversion capabilities to the Wick class DD.

Remember seeing a thread on converting Clemson and Wick’s class DD to APD, which I have been doing, mainly for the increase ASW/AAA than for the ability of transporting troops. (Note in this scenario, the Wicks class DD can convert to DE, APD, AVD, DMS, in addition to going the upgrade route.

Looking for opinions on how many I should convert, knowing that I will be decreasing my immediate escort capabilities. What I have initially done was to take half of the ships of both classes in whatever ports they are located and converted them to APD.

Interested how some have use the APD in their game. I suppose using them to conduct raids with Marine Raiders, or Para units to recapture some of the abandon Island that are under Japan’s control.

However, after playing for a while and really looking at the options, I am leaning towards converting the Wicks to DE since the DE is the long range version with even greater ASW/AAA capabilities.

Opinion on SS to SST conversion for AFB, is it worth the lost of losing the mining capabilities of the subs that can convert? Off course, not sure how effective submarine mining is.

Due to the weak AAA of the xAK, most that can be converted to AG, AE, or AKE for the increase in AAA. Once again aware that I have to balance immediate transport of supplies against future capability of the converted ship. I figure I can still use them to transport supplies when I don’t need them to be used in their primary rolls, until the ship building starts really cranking out ships.

I am truly amazed and grateful for all the knowledge, wisdom and dedication shared by all on this forum. My thanks to any who take the time to read and or comment on this post.

Andy Lawless
QM3 SS (USS Sea Devil) USN 1970-1974
USA 1976-1982 Field Artillery and Signal Corps

Post #: 1
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 6:50:18 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		xAK to AG conversion is great because you get more AA earlier, sometimes you get more endurance and an can reload depth charges with AG. However, after conversion the AGs cannot particpate in Cargo missions and cannot be loaded amphibiously. So if you plan to move supplies by AGs it is best to use them between developed ports (port 4+) so the ship can find docking space and unload the supplies while docked.

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 2
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 7:11:39 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Yaab

Thanks for responding and for the reminder about port size. Also didn't know that AG could not participate in cargo missions. One mission that I don't used often cargo TF, usually for movement of resources.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 3
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 12:22:38 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		The AEs and AKEs are some of the most valuable ships you have and every one available should be converted.

The DDs should all be converted to APDs. You don't get any for a long while and then only a small number.
They get a huge boost in ASW with the conversion so become very versatile and useful vessels.

You can wait till later for DEs and will get plenty of them so the APD conversion is preferable to the DE conversion.

AGs are extremely useful ships as the conversion only slightly reduces their capacity and I usually have more than enough xAKs for amphib operations as I try not to use that class of ship too much for that operation as a real AK is far better suited.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Lawless1)
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RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 12:33:20 PM   
Skygge


Posts: 199
Joined: 11/5/2004
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

Opinion on SS to SST conversion for AFB, is it worth the lost of losing the mining capabilities of the subs that can convert? Off course, not sure how effective submarine mining is.



If you upgrade then on the plus side:

You get Radar. I have not found another way to get this very important August 1944 Radar upgrade on the subs with a SST conversion option.

You get a (limited) cargo capacity which can be handy to keep alive small isolated garrisons. Still here I find airlifting with Emily’s more practical.
I can not recommend using the supply subs to supply garrisons under attack, as they seem very vulnerable to ASW attack, and the allied will most likely always have some DE´s on guard when assaulting an island.



On the flip side:

The VP value on the subs rockets up to 26 VP – that is same as some CL´s. So it hurt when you loose them, a bit like when you loose a 10 VP value patrol boats.

You loose the mine capability on the converted subs.. I like sub mining in the late game, especially when you target many different harbors and often far flung ones. It is useful in diverting allied power and mental focus
If they need guard and attend lot of bases. Still you have a lot of mining capabilities left in other subs. If you use sub mining to divert allied effort you need not lay big and dense minefields but rather many smaller ones.


Your choice.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 5
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 5:22:36 PM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline
quote:

The AEs and AKEs are some of the most valuable ships you have and every one available should be converted


Thank you Hans, after checking the availability date of arriving ships, not many AEs are in the pipeline.

I have always appreciated you comments in the various threads that I have read.

I am a fan of converting what I can as early as I can, knowing that this will most likely give even more advantage to a human player, and possibly some advantage to the AI.
Just have to stagger the conversion out, since the down time is from four to twenty plus days depending on the class being converted.

(in reply to Skygge)
Post #: 6
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 5:32:00 PM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Thank you Skygge for giving me a view from the JFB side, also a tip to watch for mining operations late in the game at what some believe would be a safe backwater port. With the long range of the IJN subs, there are of course not backwater safe ports.

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 7
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 6:08:41 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Converting the SSTs is a must for me. They're way too useful in that role to pass up.

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 8
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 7:05:16 PM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Trying to give something back to the forum, for the help given.

Many ships can be converted in Dec 41 to ships with greater AA/ASW assets, the trick is to find an locate them. As was historical the vast Allied fleet is scatter throughout the various areas of operations.

Each scenario has its own set of ships that can be converted, below are the ship classes that can be converted in December 1941 in the Scn#26 BabesLite A, stock map, Dec 7th start

xAK to AG, AKE, AP

Clemson Class DD to DE, APD, AVD, DM, DMS

Wicks Class DD to DE, APD,

Admiralty S Class - DD, DM

Admiralty HDML Class - three different HDML Types

Wilcannia xAKL to PC, AG, AMc

WIlcannia Class AMc to PC, AG, xAKL

Trasmarine Class xAK to AG

Harriman Class xAK to AKE

Dominon M Cargo Class to AP

Hog Island Tender Class to AKE

C2 Cargo Class to AP

Bird Class AM to AVP

select AMC to LST

Fairmile B Class ML to MGB (three different MGB with different AA and 2 different ML)

Beam Tr YP class to ACM. YMS




(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 9
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 7:06:47 PM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Thanks Lokasenna for your imput.

(in reply to Lawless1)
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RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 7:29:01 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		C2 Cargo Class converts to AE. It is the only one that does. And it is size 5400, that is what is needed to rearm the 16" guns on your BBs.
Do not let them do their June 43 upgrade, you can not convert them if you do. I use them to haul freight and a little fuel from Eastern USA
to Cape Town - there are no subs there.

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 11
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 9:26:26 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Nice list Lawless1. There are also a couple of Dutch PGs that can convert to AGPs (which handle PT boats and are scarce in the game).

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 12
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 10:11:28 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Nice list Lawless1. There are also a couple of Dutch PGs that can convert to AGPs (which handle PT boats and are scarce in the game).



and I wonder where he learned that

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 13
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/28/2016 11:38:50 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		AGPs are rare for the Allies ? Thats kinda ironic since Japan can easily convert 50 or so but has only a few PTs in the first two years.

_____________________________



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Post #: 14
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/29/2016 2:49:09 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

AGPs are rare for the Allies ? Thats kinda ironic since Japan can easily convert 50 or so but has only a few PTs in the first two years.


Yeah, I've only played out as far as Dec. '42 and have never converted one as Japan. I do see in the ship building screen a number of MGB's/MGT's so maybe eventually I'll need one.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 15
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/29/2016 3:20:33 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Relatively rare. PTs can be created all over the place so the Allies need to have AGPs nearly everywhere!
AGPs are not high-speed vessels so they are vulnerable when they put to sea to change bases.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 16
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/29/2016 3:41:55 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

AGPs are not high-speed vessels so they are vulnerable when they put to sea to change bases.


Sub bait?

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 17
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/29/2016 3:49:50 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		Thanks BBfanboy, forgot to add the Dutch PGs conversion to AGP.. Not only are AGP not very fast, they also have low endurance and takes time to move to where you will need them. There are some Dutch AGP that I move away from DEI AO and eventually to where I want them to provide support.

BillBrown thank for the tip on the C2 class cargo ships. Haven't progressed far enough into the game to worry about rearming my BBs they are either sitting on floor of PH or in a shipyard getting repaired.


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 18
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/29/2016 4:03:49 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Haven't progressed far enough into the game to worry about rearming my BBs they are either sitting on floor of PH or in a shipyard getting repaired.


Where else should they be at the start of the game?

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 19
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/29/2016 4:08:10 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

QM3 SS (USS Sea Devil) USN 1970-1974
USA 1976-1982 Field Artillery and Signal Corps


Wait a minute, wait a minute. A 'squid' who became a 'grunt'? Seriously? What gives?

P.S. Former 'grunt' here, but at least I picked a side.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 20
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 4/29/2016 4:52:42 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		To make a long story short, the recession of 1976, I had a choice of losing my new car and than taking a long bus ride to college or to keep the 76 Honda Accord, drop out of college and reenter the service. There was a waiting list to get back into the Navy, no waiting list for Army. Was back on active duty within 30 days at same grade as I left the Navy.

Had to be extra squared away, as all my ribbons from the Navy were also on my chest. Never failed to get a question about my dolphins or some of my Navy medals.

Not to uncommon, had a drill sgt at Ft. Sill that a former Navy Seal

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 21
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 5/3/2016 1:34:53 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Of course I was just kidding, and yes a bit curious. For me when I got out (1975-1978) I would have walked over glass on my hands and knees to get to anywhere so I didn't have to go back in. Good motivational tool I must say. Not that I had any real problems, got promoted outta basic, next was in AIT, and just missed an advanced promotion in the NCO Academy. CO's policy was if you finished number one in your class you got a stripe. I was second to a Special Forces guy. Lost by 2.5 points outta 1000. Hey, he was a great guy and totally deserved it. Bet he enjoyed the competition, as did I. For me though the military just wasn't my cup of tea, that's all.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 22
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 5/5/2016 8:50:07 PM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		Spent many years active Army and was in National Guard during college and after active duty. National Guard always seemed to have lot of guys with prior service in another branch; knew a Major who was an Enlisted Marine in Vietnam, a Communication NCO who was ex-Coast Guard, an E-5 Machinist who was a Machinist in the Navy. The diversity really helped add to the units and helped make for a better unit.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 23
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 7/10/2019 2:00:12 AM   
Lawless1


Posts: 316
Joined: 9/6/2015
From: Maryland but now living in SC
Status: offline 		bump

_____________________________

Two types of ships, targets and submarines
Death from below

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RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 7/10/2019 1:36:03 PM   
Gridley380


Posts: 464
Joined: 12/20/2011
Status: offline 		I'm still playing an old version of Babes, but in that you can convert the "Empire L Cargo" xAK to AKV (9 available including 1942 arrivals). I find those highly useful.

The conversion removes the liquid cargo capacity, but I think it is still worth it.


(in reply to Lawless1)
Post #: 25
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 7/10/2019 2:55:22 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gridley380

I'm still playing an old version of Babes, but in that you can convert the "Empire L Cargo" xAK to AKV (9 available including 1942 arrivals). I find those highly useful.

The conversion removes the liquid cargo capacity, but I think it is still worth it.





While they may have been overlooked in the discussion, every last one of the AKV conversions area must for me.

I refuse to offload perfectly good fighting and bombing squadrons from my CVEs just to use them for air transport.
This leaves me with only AKVs capable of delivering squadrons in an un-disabled state.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Gridley380)
Post #: 26
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 7/12/2019 11:16:49 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I almost never use AKVs. 95% of my aircraft deliveries take place by air (simply changing base). The few that take place by sea are short-ranged aircraft (fighters, 1EB) going to major ports like Pearl or Oz. From there they can reassemble quickly and then island hop to most bases. So xAKs are fine. If more range is needed, I wait until the Lightnings, Hellcats or Corsairs come online to get them to remoter places.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 27
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 7/13/2019 11:53:34 AM   
Moltrey


Posts: 297
Joined: 4/11/2010
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I almost never use AKVs. 95% of my aircraft deliveries take place by air (simply changing base). The few that take place by sea are short-ranged aircraft (fighters, 1EB) going to major ports like Pearl or Oz. From there they can reassemble quickly and then island hop to most bases. So xAKs are fine. If more range is needed, I wait until the Lightnings, Hellcats or Corsairs come online to get them to remoter places.


I've been watching THG's Youtube series as Allies vs. XTRG. I don't want to be too critical of THG's play because like myself he is fairly new to the game, but one gaff in particular made me cringe.

He transported a disassembled P-40E squadron on a transport to Pago Pago, already knowing that XTRG had at least two I-class subs in the waters surrounding the islands. A couple of ships had already been sunk and... you guessed it- he lost the whole squadron when the ship was hit by multiple torpedoes and sank. I would have ferried them to New Zealand or some other rear area airbase and then transferred as necessary. Granted, there are not all that many choices in the S/SE Pacific to choose from... but that was a bit hasty and ill-advised to me.

I like that part of the "fun" as Allies is the struggle to overcome your initial poor position and situation. Making do with what you have at hand and eking out small victories anywhere you can.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 28
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 7/13/2019 12:55:11 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		I try to avoid moving air groups by sea for that reason, and therefore have zero use for AKV conversions on either side.
The benefit of unloading flyable aircraft is of most use if you are delivering fighters to a forward area, but the need for that is rare and that is also the highest risk of the priceless cargo running over an enemy submarine.
I keep cargo ships with planes on board well to the rear, repair them at a rear area base and fly them forward.
A few days delay perhaps, but much lower risk of them being lost outright with the pilots gone as well.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

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Post #: 29
RE: Convert or not to convert that is the question? - 7/13/2019 3:01:32 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		1. Transfer all the pilots out of the squadron into the pools
2. Split the squadron into three dets.
3. Load on 3 separate ships and send in 2 or 3 different TFs
4. Reassemble survivors at forward base
5. Draft in the pilots you want from the reserve pools.

I find doing transfers by air at near max transfer range usually ends in loss of 1-3 planes with their pilots. Shipping by sea can be done without losing any pilots.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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