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Road to Leningrad (Axis) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (redrum68) - 3/8/2020 6:35:07 AM

redrum68

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So now that I've completed the tutorial scenario a few times and Road to Minsk, it seems Road to Leningrad is the next recommended scenario to try. I figured I'd try to post my play through as I learn the game in hopes of getting tips/feedback as well as provide a more up to date beginner AAR for new players! Any and all feedback is welcome both around game play and format. So with that here we go!

Turn 1

Objectives
1. Capture Riga
2. Capture other Courland ports to avoid Soviet units fleeing
3. Drive as far as possible northeast and pocket Soviet units

Tips
- A good use of AP is to reassign divisions to avoid command limit penalties and try to have all divisions reporting to Corps level commanders (not higher HQs). The rest can often be used to replace poor leaders.
- Seems like attacking with about 3x the enemy's CV is about ideal as that then gives some buffer for rolls/SU/etc so that you still end up with at least 2x to win. Remember hasty attacks only do half CV.
- Try to attack with infantry instead of panzer/motorized divisions where possible to optimize how far the latter can move.
- Move divisions reporting to the same Corps HQ towards similar areas to ensure they all are within 5 hexes and 20 MP of their Corps HQ so they get supplied at the start of next turn.
- Don't forget to repair rail hexes and not block the repair path.
- Pocket enemy units where possible and then clear them the following turn so that they surrender. But also make sure to clear where you need to repair rails and avoid wasting movement on enemy ZoC.

Turn Steps (this will probably be more brief in future turns or highlight just specific things)
1. Start with 9 AP so review some options (replace leaders, re-assign divisions, etc). I review the commanders report to see if there are any HQs over command limit but there doesn't appear to be. Then I review OOB and notice 2 divisions (1 Infantry and 1 Motorized) that are reporting directly to Army Groups so I reassign them down to a Corps for 0 AP (I believe its best to have all fighting units reporting directly to Corps). I decide to replace what appears to be the worst leader (28 Corps) with Walter Model (appears to be the best infantry leader) which costs 4 AP. I decide to save the rest til the end of the turn as I'd like to re-assign at least 1 of the 2 infantry divisions (cost 3 AP each) that are currently assigned to Panzer Corps as they won't be able to keep up with those fast moving panzers/motorized divisions.
2. Bomb nearby enemy airfields that have the most planes. End up around 500 enemy air losses for just a few German losses. I'll admit I haven't quite dove into air combat mechanics yet.
3. Use infantry to attack with at least 3x the defenders CV as you need at least 2x to win and there is a decent amount of randomness (remember hasty attack halves attacking CV so then you want like 5-6x). Also 1 CV defenders appear to be any where from 0.1-1.9 so hard to figure out how much is needed but security and fortification units seem especially weak. I sent the 26th Corps north to capture the port of Liepaja. The rest generally push northeast with a few around the city of Kaunas to the east.
4. Try to keep divisions that report to the same HQ close together and move the HQ to follow them and stay within 5 range of all the units that report to it.
5. Use mech/panzers to drive as far northeast as possible focusing mainly on capturing Riga (41st Panzer Corps). The 56th Panzer Corps sends some up north to capture the port of Ventspils and the rest to clear and pocket remaining Soviet units. Trying to ensure that the panzer corps near Riga can't be cut off as well as capturing as much territory as possible to allow maximum infantry advancement next turn.
6. Repair 4 rail hexes northeast around the town of Taurage.
7. Assign 269th Infantry Division to Model's 28 Corps (3 AP) as they are out of command/supply range of the 41st Panzer Corps that advanced to capture Riga.
8. Advance all remaining HQs and airbases forward to ensure all divisions are within command/supply range.

Questions to the Experts
1. Is that a reasonable use of AP turn 1 here? Are there clearly better options?
2. Any major things that were missed? Should Kaunas be captured turn 1?

End of Turn 1

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/13/2020 9:44:14 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad as Germans AAR for Beginners v1.1... - 3/8/2020 6:37:40 AM

redrum68

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End of Turn 1 Ground Losses
Any thoughts on if this seems about on par?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/8/2020 6:38:31 AM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad as Germans AAR for Beginners v1.1... - 3/8/2020 1:40:40 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
Questions to the Experts
1. Is that a reasonable use of AP turn 1 here? Are there clearly better options?
2. Any major things that were missed? Should Kaunas be captured turn 1?

Congratulations and welcome to the world of AARs! Will be following!

I would say in general reassigning units to reduce command penalties on HQs before changing leaders gives you your most bangs per buck. This is not always true just generally true. That said from memory the north starts with few (any?) overloaded HQs?

Kaunas is important to capture if you are repairing rail through it. If you are playing the full campaign you would not want to repair rail through the pripyat marshes so would probably rail it up to have 3 FBDs repairing the Kaunas and Tuarage/daugavapils routes. Even if you are not repairing it this turn you would want it clear of enemy to maximise your repair next turn. In this scenario though I think you have only 1 FBD and do not care about rail repair to the landbrigdge and beyond so are probably better off making Kaunas a pocket.

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RE: Road to Leningrad as Germans AAR for Beginners v1.1... - 3/8/2020 3:59:15 PM

redrum68

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@Telemecus - Thanks!

Ok, I did check to see if any HQs were over command limit and don't believe any were (edited my turn 1 post to reflect checking that as well as mentioning re-assigning units reporting to army groups down to corps).

Good point on Kaunas. You are correct that in this scenario you only have 1 FBD so won't be repairing rails through there this turn. I wonder if I should have somehow tried to pocket Kaunas this first turn? I guess I used 1 of the panzer corps to take Riga and the other was sent north up the coast to deal with those units, capture the port, and close pockets.

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/8/2020 4:01:51 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad as Germans AAR for Beginners v1.1... - 3/8/2020 7:29:37 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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Good luck with your start on WitE!
Small hint, try to encircle more units instead of causing them to rout. This is much more effective at destroying the red army than just pushing them back again and again.

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RE: Road to Leningrad as Germans AAR for Beginners v1.1... - 3/9/2020 6:18:17 AM

eskuche

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Here's an example of a Turn 1 that's almost done. I leave the minimum units necessary behind to clean up pockets, while as much infantry as possible advance forward.

Edit: Road to scenarios have weird distributions of units so this won't be replicable. For example, Kaunas in your map will always have access to map-side supply, so when I played road to Leningrad I just took it. I'm not sure of the exact air command chains in Leningrad, but I save a few AP turn 1 to reassign airbases to Luftflotte 2 or Fliegerkorps VIII under it if possible for the level bombers to maximize my efficiency for long range bombing. Leningrad gives you no Ju-87 dive bombers so this is less useful, as you can barely clear the nearby airbases with only Ju-88A's.

Note the (from N to S) Courland, Kaunas, Bialystok, Kovel, and Lvov pockets. The areas on the roads to Minsk and Daugavpils will retract during the Soviet turn and prevent units from really getting out.

Further, the infantry stack at Minsk and airborne brigade at Daugavpils are effectively stuck because it takes minimum 8 movement to go from enemy zone of control to another one.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by eskuche -- 3/9/2020 6:22:11 AM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/9/2020 6:37:54 AM

eskuche

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Further things specifically. Here are two good early game food for thought threads whose authors are perhaps too humble to link them directly (:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4639282&mpage=1
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4601253

quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
2. Bomb nearby enemy airfields that have the most planes. End up around 500 enemy air losses for just a few German losses. I'll admit I haven't quite dove into air combat mechanics yet.

You'll see that the most efficient air bombing steps for turn 1 are something like this:
1. Ground support off. Interception up. Recon escort off. All air groups to 1 range. Unlock 1 non-leaving fighter group at a not-forwardmost airbase (the ones with the Ju-52/m transports are a good candidate).
2. Make as many guaranteed ground attacks as possible. Fighters will intercept for free experience due to turn 1 Soviet maluses. Change out fighters when the first gruppes reach ~25-30 fatigue.
3. When approaching a Soviet airbase you absolutely cannot leave alone, move forward (starting from the back) an airbase. Transfer tactical bombers and another fighter squad to it (two Stab flights are probably okay). Bomb airbases. Dive bombers will decimate planes (about one gruppe per 3-4 airbases within 11 range). Again, you don't have access to them in Road to Leningrad so plan accordingly.
4. Repeat across all fronts. When done with turn, move forwardmost airbases as far forward as possible under protection of another unit. Move level bombers to them. Bomb far away airbases.
5. There are many more advanced considerations that are addressed in Telemecus's thread, such as swapping out bases (depending on whether you're on v1.12.03 or 1.11.03), swapping out planes to leaving groups, preserving

Important air principles are that if you stack two airbases, you can transfer planes from lower to higher unit ID (right click unit panel, top right number is unit ID). Axis has recon excess, you can reserve most flights turn 1 until needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
3. Use infantry to attack with at least 3x the defenders CV as you need at least 2x to win and there is a decent amount of randomness (remember hasty attack halves attacking CV so then you want like 5-6x). Also 1 CV defenders appear to be any where from 0.1-1.9 so hard to figure out how much is needed but security and fortification units seem especially weak. I sent the 26th Corps north to capture the port of Liepaja. The rest generally push northeast with a few around the city of Kaunas to the east.

My opinion is that you don't need the entire XXVI Corps going to Courland. One or two divisions should be enough to clear out of supply units. Just realized in my game Memel is going to be taken if I don't attack there..oops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
7. Assign 269th Infantry Division to Model's 28 Corps (3 AP) as they are out of command/supply range of the 41st Panzer Corps that advanced to capture Riga.

Model's Corp will be the very strongest one, so a lot of players use it for cracking the toughest forts with high SU commitment. I put SS Polizei division under him instead.

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/9/2020 5:15:14 PM

redrum68

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@eskuche - Thanks for the very detailed reply and example turn 1 of the full campaign.

Yeah, it appears Road to scenarios are a bit different given the starting units and the edge of the map supply especially around Kaunas in this case. The rest seems to play out fairly similar looking at your screenshot.

I do think I probably used more units than I needed up the coast of Courland though my thought was at least the infantry divisions (26th Corps) could then clean up the remaining units turn 2 there and then march through Riga. I probably shouldn't have used the 61st panzer corps there though and sent those primarily east towards Daugavpils instead like you did.

Looking at your screenshot, as you mentioned, I think Memel is potentially at risk and is it possible that your motorized in Courland could be isolated near Priekule (looks like it would only require only 1 or 2 moves)?

Once you finish the turn, I would also be very interested in seeing how you position all your HQs and airbases as I'm trying to better grasp the supply and command systems.

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 4:31:59 AM

redrum68

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Turn 2

Here is what it looks like at the start:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 4:32:10 AM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 4:33:42 AM

redrum68

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And here is a closer look at the 2 Panzer Corps (41st and 56th) and the path east towards Pskov:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 5:07:11 AM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 4:35:45 AM

redrum68

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Here is a closer look at the path north towards Tallinn:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 4:58:07 AM

redrum68

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Turn Objectives
Options:
1. Head north and capture Tallinn
2. Head east and capture Pskov
3. Head east to take control of area between Riga and Pskov to pocket Soviet units and clear for infantry to march next turn
4. Head southeast to pocket remaining Soviet units and prepare for panzer thrust to come up from the south of Pskov

I'm not really sure what the ideal move is and I'm sure this is a bit different in the grand campaign as well as vs human players. I decide to try to achieve objectives 2, 3, and 4 but ignore 1 as I felt it would put a good portion of my Panzer Corps in a poor position and with little fuel in turn 3.

Tips
- Try to consider not only the current turn but the following turn on where you plan to advance units. If you can clear territory this turn so that its friendly next turn then that makes it so movement costs are much cheaper and units can advance further.
- Consider supply range and how much supply/fuel/MP that units will likely receive the following turn. This is especially important for panzer/motorized divisions and making sure to keep Corp HQs within 25 hexes and 100 MP of the current railhead and as close a possible up to 10 hexes and 20 MPs to maximize supply (just need to also make sure all of its divisions are with 5 hexes and 20 MP of the HQ). See here for more supply details: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4773993
- Try to cross enemy held rivers where possible so that units next turn can spend less MP crossing them since they are then friendly crossings
- Attacking over rivers and into rough terrain tends to take a lot of movement and CV so consider ways to minimize that and sometimes going around units to pocket them.

Turn Steps
1. OOB & AP (17): 12 AP for 2 poor infantry leader replacements (Kirchner to 2nd Corps, Hollidt to 1st Corps), 3 AP to re-assign infantry division from 56th Panzer Corps to the 1st Corps (too slow to keep up), assign new 96th Infantry Division to 2 Corps, 2 AP remaining
2. Air: a few recon flights around areas I plan to attack, try bombing an airfield for little effect, bomb a few enemy units around Pskov
3. Infantry: clean up remaining pockets and march east to try and cross the Daugava river with as many divisions as possible so they can march towards Pskov next turn
4. Objectives 2 & 3: Use 41st Panzer Corps to capture Pskov though unable to move into it as well as create a weak pocket with the motorized division as it went east then cut north to link up with the panzer divisions
5. Objectives 3 & 4: Use 56th Panzer Corps to head east and southeast to pocket the remaining Soviet units and prepare to drive north next turn behind Pskov
6. Repair rail hexes northeast towards Riga

End of Turn 2 (tried my hand at showing the movement paths)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/13/2020 9:56:48 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 5:03:01 AM

redrum68

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Closer look at the area between Riga and Pskov

Attachment (1)

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 5:15:57 AM

redrum68

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Turn 2 Questions
1. Was the overall strategy and objectives reasonable? Is there clearly a better way to go?
2. Any mistakes that you notice?
3. I'm trying to better understand supply/MP allocation. Luckily most of my Panzer Corps had close to 50 MP this turn though I think it'll be significantly less next turn. I try to review the Panzer and Motorized Divisions to see why they started with 47-48 MP instead of 50. I can see that pretty much all of them are just a bit short on fuel (~95%) and below you can see the 6th Panzer Division received 47 fuel through its Corps leaving it 7 fuel short. Any idea why?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 5:18:04 AM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 9:31:47 AM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
Turn 2 Questions
1. Was the overall strategy and objectives reasonable? Is there clearly a better way to go?

In the full campaign game you would certainly ignore Talinn. In shorter campaigns where cities count as victory points that might be a different matter. Units on the coast would be on beachhead supply if they are cut off so there are benefits. Only worry now might be your panzer corps are spread thin across the front. They are likely to have close to no MPs next turn. So if any get in trouble they will need the foot infantry to save them. Good then that you have a follow on infantry ball and hexes cleared to friendly control to maximise their movement next turn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
I try to review the Panzer and Motorized Divisions to see why they started with 47-48 MP instead of 50. I can see that pretty much all of them are just a bit short on fuel (~95%) and below you can see the 6th Panzer Division received 47 fuel through its Corps leaving it 7 fuel short. Any idea why?

This I am afraid is normal - and will get worse the more east you go. Look up the "Rail Supply Modifier" in the manual. But bottom line is there is a penalty for fuel delivery that increases the further east the x co-ordinate, although it decreases over time.

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 12:38:10 PM

xhoel

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Your decision to not go for Tallinn was sound. Splitting your Panzer Group to go for 2 different directions was not.

In the 1941 start, the Germans have about 2 weeks of good fuel and ammo on hand. On turn 3 everything shuts down since your forward forces are too far ahead of the rail lines. This means that next turn, most of your armored/motorized formations will have very little MPs to move.

Which means that your southern Panzer Corps (the 56th) will be stuck where it is, far from where it needs to be (Pskov). This also has other implications. You just committed a full panzer corps to push for an irrelevant objective and to surround 2 Soviet divisions. Adding to that, 2 of your divisions are south of the Dvina, which is a mistake as they will have to cross the river again to go north, which costs a lot of MPs. Your armor should be pushing north-east towards Pskov/Novogorod not east towards Vitebsk. It will take you 2 turns or more to get this Panzer Corps back were it need to be, giving your enemy time to reposition themselves. What you should have done, in my opinion was to concentrate both of your panzer corps on breaching the Velikaya river live, thus making it impossible for the Soviets to form a strong defensive line here and forcing them to abandon Pskov or risk encirclement.

The key point here is to retain focus and composure: Keep your eyes on the prize which is Leningrad and keep your Panzers together to facilitate breakthroughs and to cover each others rear.

You did a good job on taking Pskov and also on pushing your infantry across the river. You will need the infantry to reach your panzers ASAP, since next turn you won't be able to use them that much.

I'm guessing you are moving your airfields with aircraft in. You shouldn't do that and as a rule, you shouldn't move your airfields forward constantly. Just move an empty airfield forward and air transfer some fighters there. The rest of your air bases containing LBs should stay back in the rear on a rail line. Also, after turn 1 airfield bombing is hard to do properly and not that effective. Your air groups must be pretty tired from the turn 1 fighting. It is a good idea to send them to the NR to recover morale and lower fatigue and get the ready aircraft numbers up. This will help you in the long run.

In relation to MPs: A panzer/motorized division with 50 MPs after the first turn is really really rare. This is realistic as units are rarely operating at their optimum capacity and at perfect supply. For the first 3 turns you shouldn't worry too much about it.

Last remark: I know that small scenarios are not the same thing as the Grand Campaign and players choose different strategies to achieve the VPs needed. However, if you are learning the game, it would be wise to play the scenario as if you are playing the Grand Campaign, so it helps you refine your gameplay for when you switch to the campaign. That means, don't pay too much attention to the VPs, try to get Leningrad while not suffering heavy losses and surrounding/destroying as many Soviet formations as possible.

Cheers!

< Message edited by xhoel -- 3/10/2020 12:42:58 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 3:33:34 PM

eskuche

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Agree with above. Nice...infantry ball. Wonder where that terminology came from ;)

I�ll post an annotated turn 1 airbase picture tonight. HQs don�t actually matter that much since most units will still be near 100% stocks per the pre-Barbarossa buildup.

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 5:03:28 PM

redrum68

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Thanks for all the insightful feedback. I can see now that I probably tried to do too much and probably should have ignored objective 4 (Head southeast to pocket remaining Soviet units and prepare for panzer thrust to come up from the south of Pskov) as I probably won't have the fuel to achieve the second part of that in turn 3 (maybe even for a few turns). It most likely will leave the 56th Panzer Corps in poor position and it spread all my panzers thin across the front. I think this is probably just me being an over excited beginner that saw land to be taken and units that could be pocketed as well as not really being able to judge how much fuel I'll have in turn 3.

Supply/Fuel Question

So that leads to another question for the experts. Could you predict approximately how much fuel the various panzer/motorized divisions in the 41st and 56th will receive by looking at the screenshots and additional info in the game? And then how that would translate into MP?

My understanding from reading the manual and various guides is something like this:
1. All the divisions are within the 5 hexes and 20 MPs of their HQ (assuming the Soviets don't do anything to change that)
2. The corps HQs are within 25 hexes and 100 MPs of the railhead
3. So each division should then get a proportional share of the HQ dumps and then draw through the HQ (Supply = Need ∙ MPM ∙ HM ∙ TM ∙ RM)
4. I'm fairly sure that each of the 2 panzer corp HQs have pretty minimal fuel dumps (~50) which then spread across 3 units is going to be like 15 fuel each
5. Need = close to 100%
6. MPM = 20 / MPD
7. HM = 10 / HPD
8. TM = trucks needed / trucks in pool (I think this will be 1 in this case)
9. RM = (100 - 20 + 50 - X) / 100 (my guess is X is around 70 so this will be about 0.6)
10. So for each division it should be something like: Supply = 100% * (20 / MPD) * (10 / HPD) * 1 * 0.6

For the 41st HQ, I think they are something like MPD=40 and HPD=20 which would mean they are only going to receive around 15% of their fuel + ~15 from the HQ dumps. Which then barring any failed leader checks would mean they are only getting around 10-15 MP.

Also, looks like approximate division need currently is:
- 300 for panzers
- 160 for motorized
- 210 for SS motorized

This also leads to the following golden rules for supply if I'm understanding correctly:
1. Always try to have Divisions end up within 5 hexes and 20 MPs of their Corps HQ (but having them any closer than that doesn't really make a difference?)
2. Try to have Corps HQs within 10 hexes and 20 MPs of the railhead (before repair) for max supply draw and definitely within 25 hexes and 100 MPs of the railhead (but anything closer than 10 hexes and 20 MPs doesn't really matter?).

Is that about right? Did I miss anything?

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 5:57:45 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 5:41:27 PM

redrum68

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So here is an actual look at the 41st Panzer Corps HQ that shows 24 fuel dumps, 25 HPD, and 42 MPD. I'm not sure if those are final values (ignoring any Soviet movement) as I'm not sure if territory turns friendly before MPD is calculated.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 5:43:09 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 5:44:00 PM

redrum68

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And here is a look at the 56th Panzer Corps HQ (a bit better as it has more dumps and is closer to railhead). Is there any other information I should be looking at?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 5:50:27 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 7:05:17 PM

joelmar

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For supply, you have understood right.

I don't think this is stated in the manual, but my understanding is that truck usage and wear, along with damage and destruction, is always based on traveled hexes and expended MP's, along like some hidden max travel mileage for trucks, and of course the weather, like for airgroups. So the more miles your trucks need to travel to get supplies to the units, the more trucks will be used. Therefore, if you can get below the min hexes/MP's for supplies delivery, it will be better for truck usage.

I also always try to use the organic trucks of the HQ's to the max and therefore limit the usage for the trucks in the pool. So that means that I try for HQ placement to have the minimum distance possible from HQ to railhead, and then when a few hexes have the same travel costs, I choose the hex that makes the distance to the units as uniform as possible.

That said, I have read at a few places that truck usage is rarely a problem in 1.12.03, and I don't know to what degree it is true. But it is definitely a big factor in 1.11.03

< Message edited by joelmar -- 3/10/2020 8:43:04 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 10:35:58 PM

redrum68

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Turn 3

Panzer Corps Fuel
So I decided to look into the various screens and reports and eventually found kind of what I was looking for. Here is a report that shows the panzer corps and divisions supply phase 1. So the 41st Panzer Corps pulled 185 fuel that it distributed (70, 41, 74) to its divisions. It shows HPD=25 so HM=10/25=0.4 (40), MPD=32 so MPM=20/32=0.62 (62), TM=1, and RM=1. So approximate supply requested should be: Supply = 100% * 0.4 * 0.62 * 1 * 1 = 25%. The report seems to be missing the overall Need but we can estimate that at around (300 + 300 + 160 = 760). And we can see that 760 * 25% = 190 (which is very close to the 185 it shows was received).

The 56th Corps has a bit better hex and distance multipliers so even though its overall Need is less (1 panzer, 1 SS Mot, 1 Mot vs 2 panzers, 1 Mot), it receives more fuel. The units appear to receive a bit more which I think is probably due to the fuel dumps that the 56th Corps had (it showed 66 at the end of turn 2). So unit fuel received was 107 + 75 + 56 = 238 which is just a bit less than 198 + 66 = 264 (guessing the Corps HQ itself consumes some of the dumps first).

But the good news is the numbers for the most part seem to make sense and we can see how important Corps HQ hex/distance from the railhead is to fueling our Panzer Corps. The bad news is well we only got around 25-35% of our fuel this turn...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 10:44:10 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 10:48:42 PM

redrum68

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Start of Turn 3

Here is what things look like at the start of turn 3 overall and a closer look at the main front near Pskov (and yes I figured out how to merge 2 images). And as you can see the 41st Panzer Corp divisions received around 15 MP while the 56th Panzer Corp divisions got around 20 MP.

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< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 10:50:51 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/10/2020 11:00:50 PM

redrum68

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Turn Objectives
1. Take back Pskov and try to press forward with the 41st Panzer Corp where possible
2. Move the 56th Panzer Corp north so its better positioned to help next turn
3. Push all the infantry up to prepare for a full assault on Pskov and across the Velikaya next turn

Summary
Overall, a pretty uneventful turn given the low MP on the Panzer Corps and friendly territory marching for the Infantry. I was able to take back Pskov but again didn't have the MP to move into it. Also was able to at least get the Mech division across the river. Other than that a few minor attacks with a few wins and a few loses as only a few infantry divisions could reach far enough to attack anything.

The good news is that it was a preparation turn and now next turn we should see some infantry attack and the Panzer Corps should refuel to closer to 50% given that the railhead advanced and the Corps HQs stocked more fuel dumps. Here's the end of turn 3:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by redrum68 -- 3/10/2020 11:09:35 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/11/2020 12:13:41 AM

eskuche

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A little late, but here are annotated turn 1 airbases for me (different game):
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659094483002195978/678270183399489540/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659094483002195978/678275845302910986/unknown.png

Here is Telemecus's annotated SU turn 1 airbase targets (post #17):
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4639282&mpage=1#

Note the locations of my Ju-87'Ds. Each gruppe of those can take out 2-4 airbases at max range (11 hexes) by themselves, with escort when appropriate.

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/11/2020 12:19:56 AM

eskuche

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Regarding turn 2, something you can consider is not moving every single motorized unit to its max. This way you will have some leftover at ~100% fuel for turn 3. This simulates a HQ buildup, and the reason it is effective is that moving across previously converted terrain, as you see with infantry movement into panzer claimed territory, costs less than half as much MP.

Another point is that having Army/PzGp HQs closer to the units gives the units better checks throughout. You can check the units' roll %'s in the supply details window. Try moving army HQs closer. Now try moving corps HQ's closer. You'll see that the latter has no correlation between distance and rolls, but the former does. This is the command range modifier (11.3.2.2) whereby all rolls have their denominator increased by distance/(number of levels the HQ is higher than the immediate HQ + 1). The practical consequence of this is that, vehicle damage willing, moving Army HQs (higher generally not worth it) to within 2 hexes of any attacking unit gives you most efficient rolls.

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/11/2020 3:20:30 PM

redrum68

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@eskuche - Ok, thanks for the airbase details. I honestly haven't really dove into the air details yet and just doing the bare minimum there as it doesn't seem very intuitive or as important as many other things.

Holding some motorized units back could make sense. Its tough I think in this particular scenario as I only have 6 divisions so not a lot to work with. But I do see that running some forward to turn territory friendly would make movement cheaper.

Oh I see. HQ optimal positioning is still something I don't fully understand. I think I have the basics where you keep all the divisions with 5 hexes and 20 MP of their Corps HQ and then try to keep HQs with 10 hexes and 20 MP of the railhead when possible. But I haven't thought as much about the higher HQs. So do you usually move say the PzGp HQ around during a turn following your attacks? Or is it only its starting position that matters? It would be helpful to see some examples of ideal HQ placement/movement.

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/11/2020 5:01:46 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68
Oh I see. HQ optimal positioning is still something I don't fully understand. I think I have the basics where you keep all the divisions with 5 hexes and 20 MP of their Corps HQ and then try to keep HQs with 10 hexes and 20 MP of the railhead when possible. But I haven't thought as much about the higher HQs. So do you usually move say the PzGp HQ around during a turn following your attacks? Or is it only its starting position that matters? It would be helpful to see some examples of ideal HQ placement/movement.

As a rule of thumb I would say just keep the HQs within 5 hexes of their units and then place the HQs as close to the rail as possible. The latter usually will improve supply but will reduce vehicle loss always anyway. Only in bad weather or very bad terrain will 20MPs be important - for the bulk of the time anything within 5 hexes will be less than 20Mps away.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/11/2020 5:02:06 PM >

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/11/2020 5:14:40 PM

redrum68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
As a rule of thumb I would say just keep the HQs within 5 hexes of their units and then place the HQs as close to the rail as possible. The latter usually will improve supply but will reduce vehicle loss always anyway. Only in bad weather or very bad terrain will 20MPs be important - for the bulk of the time anything within 5 hexes will be less than 20Mps away.

And by "HQs" do you just mean the immediate division's HQ (Corps HQ for Germans)? Or do you mean all "HQs" up the chain?

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RE: Road to Leningrad (Germans) Beginner AAR v1.11.03 (... - 3/11/2020 5:36:36 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
As a rule of thumb I would say just keep the HQs within 5 hexes of their units and then place the HQs as close to the rail as possible. The latter usually will improve supply but will reduce vehicle loss always anyway. Only in bad weather or very bad terrain will 20MPs be important - for the bulk of the time anything within 5 hexes will be less than 20Mps away.

And by "HQs" do you just mean the immediate division's HQ (Corps HQ for Germans)? Or do you mean all "HQs" up the chain?

Yes immediate HQs, they are the only ones involved in supply, the higher HQs are not involved at all.

The higher ones are involved in ratings checks. So as eskuche said the next highest HQ should be 1 or less hexes away for no range penalty etc. But this is rare. A good rule of thumb is keep higher HQs as close as possible for ratings checks, but keep them close to rails and not zig zagging to avoid using vehicles too much.

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