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Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round

 
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Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/8/2020 7:26:58 PM   
guctony


Posts: 669
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline 		Why nobody developed big bore HEAT rounds in WW2. 8 or 15 inch heat rounds could be interesting experience

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/8/2020 7:47:45 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		Because they were not shooting at tanks. AP and SAP would work better.

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/8/2020 8:36:37 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Accuracy, HEAT rounds work better when not spinning, therefore they are usually fin stabilised (or are very complicated), their effect is severly degraded when fired from a rifled gun.

So if you tried to fire it from a 8/15" smoothbore gun you either have too many misses or have to get so close that your opponents 8/15" guns are drilling holes in your ship.

I believe the Germans made a 5.9" (150mm) HEAT round.

< Message edited by JeffroK -- 3/8/2020 8:38:40 PM >

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/8/2020 9:33:18 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Generally speaking, HEAT allowed low velocity/low kinetic energy projectiles to be effective against armour. But it came with a price: The heat round will usually not cause as much damage as a classic projectile of same weight, since only a small share is injected through the burnt-in hole. In addition, HEAT shells tend to be vulnerable against spaced armour: The first layer detonates the shell, the second layer easily stops the (now dispersed) metal jet.
The above is not that much of a problem against tanks: A tank usually has no more than one layer of armour, and even a little bit molten metal is sufficient to take out the crew. But when dealing with a battleship, you will have many layers surrounding the important parts (cables, ammunition storage, machine rooms), and a small metal jet will cause negligible damage in a huge ship. What you need is a massive projectile ripping through the structure while staying intact, to set off the charge deep within the vessel.
Furthermore, ship guns need have high velocity&kinetic energy anyway for long range and precision, so there is no motivation to use HEAT in the first place.
Note that kinetic energy shells today are still preferred over HEAT against armoured targets when the gun is able to provide enough velocity, e.g. in the case of tank guns or long range artillery.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 3/8/2020 9:40:46 PM >

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/8/2020 9:39:25 PM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		Don't really need HEAT with the Iowa 16 inch "A major alteration from the older guns was the Mark 6's ability to fire a new 2,700-pound (1,200 kg) armor-piercing (AP) shell developed by the Bureau of Ordnance. At full charge with a brand-new gun, the heavy shell would be expelled at a muzzle velocity of 2,300 feet per second (700 m/s)"

Perhaps the heaviest BB like Yamato could sustain a few rounds but I can't think of any cruiser or similar ship surviving even a couple of hits.

The HE round would probably kill or wound people even in armored compartments.



< Message edited by Scott_USN -- 3/8/2020 9:43:18 PM >

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/8/2020 10:26:32 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		The HE round made nice swimming pools the size of tennis courts.

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/8/2020 10:27:38 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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Status: offline 		Just add water!

Oh wait may open up its own spring also!

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/9/2020 12:18:12 AM   
geofflambert


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Status: offline 		The British discovered in the Falklands War that HEAT rounds in naval warfare were obsolete. All you need do is use a lot of aluminum (aluminium to them) in the structure and the ship will catch fire very nicely.

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/9/2020 1:01:59 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		They should have known from the US involvement in Viet Nam that the aluminium M113 Armoured Personnel Carrier would burn when hit by a RPG heat round.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/9/2020 2:52:55 AM   
Fishbed

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline 		Here, this sums it up I think. As the others have pointed out, the tech used in a HEAT round makes it inefficient in all important aspects of naval combat: speed, accuracy & damage.

Here's the example of what a modern 120mm (which is pretty much the diameter of a 5 inch gun) HEAT round will do to a tank.



Of course everybody's dead in there, but even a hole three times the size wouldn't exactly cut it against a battleship or even a cruiser, and would produce an underwhelming result - you'd need for the stream to travel meters into the ship to achieve anything. Only a naval AP round (that is a hardened round with an explosive filler - tank AP rounds are just metal rods, they would be inefficient by design too) has this ability to be fuzed so as to travel into the ship until it explodes from the inside.

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 3/9/2020 2:58:00 AM >

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/9/2020 3:13:30 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
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Status: offline 		It basically vaporizes everyone inside the tank, but as you said not really good in WWII because of the ranges. 20000 yards or even 10000.

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RE: Have a jolly fun question. BB gun HEAT Round - 3/9/2020 10:21:33 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		120mm is about 4.7 inches.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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