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Artillery and tanks/IFVs

 
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Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 5:04:40 AM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		I am trying Rolling Thunder again. I spotted a BMP-3 in some light woods and tried to maneuver two javelin teams through woods into position to take them out. Both spotted and hit with air bursts at around 475 meters. The BMP-3 was in top condition and I was impressed with its spotting ability. The T-90s are the same. Their spotting abilities make them very dangerous.

But later, I was able to move quickly onto another BMP-3 and close to around 40-50 meters through some woods and get off some At-4 shots off and was never spotted. The main difference is that BMP-3 was in a location which had been under several 155mm and 120mm artillery bombardments. I am guessing the BMP-3 was never knocked out but suffered significant damage to its optics. Thus inability to see infantry within 50 meters. Lesson learned is it is worth bringing some artillery down on any spotted armor if you have it available. Degradation to spotting is very helpful.

And now I am wondering just how vulnerable are tanks and IFVs to artillery. I am also wondering what components are most vulnerable. I am guessing IFVs are much more vulnerable to artillery than tanks but some components are probable just as vulnerable whether on tanks or IFVs. So what is SOP when you have the opportunity to put some artillery on armor? Go for it? After this latest game, I suspect it is very good idea to drop artillery on vehicles.
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RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 2:55:13 PM   
z1812


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Joined: 9/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagger2002
So what is SOP when you have the opportunity to put some artillery on armor? Go for it? After this latest game, I suspect it is very good idea to drop artillery on vehicles.


I tend to hoard my artillery until I see how the battle is developing. If I use it against Armour, it is usually to harass and distract it rather than to damage it. Most often I reserve it for a general area that I will be assaulting.

Visually you would not have been able to know the extent of the damage caused to the BMP. As you said, you were guessing you were not spotted due to artillery damage to the BMP's optics. However without really knowing it will always be a risk. The question is always "is the risk worthwhile".

(in reply to Jagger2002)
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RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 5:44:43 PM   
Jagger2002

 

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quote:

Visually you would not have been able to know the extent of the damage caused to the BMP.
Good point. At the time, I moved the two squads forward, I didn't have high hopes for their survival. I was surprised that they weren't hit by BMP air bursts. Since the player can't determine if the vehicle has been damaged or not, it is a gamble to make the assumption.

My guess is the artillery training scenario played on hot seat would be a good way to test how common it is for artillery to inflict damage on various types of vehicles and what types of damage occurs. I noticed that precision artillery is not quite as precision as I would like but wouldn't be surprised if those very close range misses aren't damaging components.

(in reply to z1812)
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RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 6:24:56 PM   
z1812


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Joined: 9/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagger2002
My guess is the artillery training scenario played on hot seat would be a good way to test how common it is for artillery to inflict damage on various types of vehicles and what types of damage occurs.


Great idea. Perhaps you will post your findings.

< Message edited by z1812 -- 4/18/2021 6:25:52 PM >

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RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 6:46:00 PM   
OldSarge


Posts: 642
Joined: 11/25/2010
From: Albuquerque, NM
Status: offline 		Artillery has a wonderful ability to cause widespread suppression in an area, and even cause morale drops. So I tend to hit locations where terrain analysis suggests OPFOR is likely lurking.

Usually Hapless has a short video on YouTube CM Basics Calling for fire its worth a quick look.

Setting up a test scenario is a great idea!

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(in reply to z1812)
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RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 6:57:30 PM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		I just checked out the artillery basic training scenario and unfortunately, it can't be played hotseat.

(in reply to OldSarge)
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RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 8:02:03 PM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		Usually Hapless has excellent videos. Krause and the Armchair General also have top quality youtube CM videos. The Armchair Generals 6 part series on tactics is very helpful. It is set in Normandy but the same basic principles apply to Black Sea.

(in reply to Jagger2002)
Post #: 7
RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/18/2021 9:49:01 PM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		https://community.battlefront.com/topic/124864-vehicle-protection-from-artillery-shells/page/6/

Good discussion on CM artillery vs tanks.

(in reply to Jagger2002)
Post #: 8
RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/19/2021 1:26:28 PM   
KungPao


Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagger2002

https://community.battlefront.com/topic/124864-vehicle-protection-from-artillery-shells/page/6/

Good discussion on CM artillery vs tanks.

Yes, The link you provide is a fantastic topic, I haven't got a chance to finish all pages but learned a lot of new knowledge since I found that thread one year ago.

About the Artillery vs AFV, there are a lot of topic.

I cannot find the link but there are people complain that M1A2 survives multiple 203mm close miss and direct hit. multiple 152mm direct hit not be able to achieve even a "mission kill" on a Oplot. Or, after two rounds 2 rounds of Laser guide 122mm direct hit, the Bradley is still running and shooting.

Here is a discussion of Airburst arty vs sub-system. Some people said that airburst rarely cause sub-system damage.
https://community.battlefront.com/topic/138062-artillery-broken-against-sub-systems/

From my experience BMP-3 is a tough boy, you will need a 120mm direct hit to acheive a kill. Other Soviet/Russian APC are relativiely fragile. A 122mm airburst can kill a MTLB. A 60mm mortar direct hit can take out a BTR



< Message edited by KungPao -- 4/19/2021 1:27:24 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/19/2021 1:34:34 PM   
KungPao


Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
Status: offline 		BTW, from my experience of "Rolling Thunder".

The Javelin team is a key component to make hole on Russian defense line. But move them with cautious. make them slowly crawl to the ridgeline will help to improve their survivability.

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Post #: 10
RE: Artillery and tanks/IFVs - 4/20/2021 4:50:16 AM   
Jagger2002

 

Posts: 674
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		I just had one of my M-1s take a direct hit from a mortar. The following subsystems were damaged to level yellow: Targeting, IR Optics, Trophy APS, Laser Warning, Smoke launchers and Radio. I also made the mistake of trying to take out an unlocated auto grenade launcher by having an M-1 drive towards it. It was absolutely clobbered with Targeting, IR Optics, Laser Warning and radio all knocked out to red status. Without sighting capability that M-1 is almost useless. And it never spotted the AGL. I think next time I will try another tactic.

And I have finally won Rolling Thunder. I am in the mop up phase now. Although even 1 man squads can hit pretty hard. My infantry taking excessive losses in the mop up. The main point I have learned from this scenario is make sure flanks are secure before advancing. If anything is on the flank, take it out before advancing.

I didn't think about using the ridges to put the jav teams into place. The hill is pretty much wide open terrain. My two javelin teams were in the woods on the left and on the forward slope of the hill. Woods are not good enough concealment against T-90s or BMP-3s.

< Message edited by Jagger2002 -- 4/20/2021 4:51:40 AM >

(in reply to KungPao)
Post #: 11
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