Why are french troops defending with 24 factors?

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Why are french troops defending with 24 factors?

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Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/5/2021 5:11:33 PM

juntoalmar

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In this attack, although there are only 9 french land factors, the ratio is 33:24? Why is that?

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< Message edited by juntoalmar -- 9/5/2021 5:12:02 PM >

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RE: Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/5/2021 5:38:59 PM

Orm

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Because the French units are in mountain terrain. And the German PARA adds the notional defender to their strength.

The 9 defending factors are doubled to 18. The notional strength is 3, and is also doubled to a strength of 6. 18 + 6 is 24.

Edit: Notional basic strength is 1, add 1 for the French homeland, and add another for the city, and you get to the notionals strength of 3.

Edit 2: All defenders have their strength doubled in mountains.

< Message edited by Orm -- 9/5/2021 5:40:41 PM >

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RE: Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/5/2021 5:42:05 PM

Joseignacio

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Maybe I am wrong but, isnt the MIL unsupplied and OOS? Not sure with all of those buttons whose function changes depending of the phase.

If so, it would be less.

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RE: Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/5/2021 5:43:50 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Maybe I am wrong but, isnt the MIL unsupplied and OOS? Not sure with all of those buttons whose function changes depending of the phase.

If so, it would be less.

The are in a French city (Lyons). And as long as France isn't conquered they are in supply.

Edit: The buttons for the French I think are "in combat" for both, and "disorganized" for the MIL.

< Message edited by Orm -- 9/5/2021 5:45:03 PM >

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RE: Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/5/2021 5:49:28 PM

juntoalmar

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I see, thanks! I guess, in this case, it's probably wiser not to send the paratroopers to get a 29:18

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RE: Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/5/2021 5:52:29 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

I see, thanks! I guess, in this case, it's probably wiser not to send the paratroopers to get a 29:18

Could be. But this should be a careful consideration depending on the options in play. A PARA could give a +1 bonus. And the notional is always considered disorganized so that gives another +1 combat bonus.

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RE: Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/5/2021 7:52:55 PM

Joseignacio

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True. to your answer to me and to your final consideration on whether to include the notional. It is difficult to say.

You have to consider as well that you may have an extra loss if you use a Para, in case you dont take the hex, depending on the result (in some cases if you lose 1 or more units you could kill the Para first).

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 9/5/2021 7:54:06 PM >

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RE: Why are french troops defending with 24 factors? - 9/6/2021 10:02:08 PM

Courtenay

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With the parachute, German expected loss is 1.178 units, French is 1.263, Germans take Lyon 42.75% of the time.
Without the parachute, German expected loss is 1.55 units, French is 0.717, Germans take Lyon 15.67% of the time.
That first figure assumes that the French use the notional. If they do not use the notional, the German expected loss is 1.187, the French is 1.25, and the Germans take Lyon 42% of the time. In other words, the French should NOT use the notional -- the gain of six defense points is not worth the +1 modifier for using the notional.

So the Germans do better with the Parachute, except that it costs more to rebuild the Parachute, and they will lose it almost three fifths of the time.

(I don't think I would make this attack, unless the Germans are going for a conquest of France, rather than Vichyfication. Trading German units for French at almost 1-1 does not strike me as a winning strategy.)

Edit: Oops. These numbers are wrong. I forgot that Lyons is a city with a factory. I do not know if there is a German HQ in the attack, or if there are any engineers. If there aren't, the numbers change to this:

With the parachute, German expected loss is 1.395 units, French is 0.963, Germans take Lyon 26.25% of the time.
Without the parachute, German expected loss is 1.550 units, French is 0.717, Germans take Lyon 15.67% of the time.
That first figure assumes that the French use the notional. If they do not use the notional, the German expected loss is 1.403, the French is 0.95, and the Germans take Lyon 25.67% of the time. In other words, the French should NOT use the notional -- the gain of six defense points is not worth the +1 modifier for using the notional.

With the city modifiers, this attack is clearly a bad idea.

Reedit: Somehow I had the wrong numbers here in the second line of the edited numbers. Fixed now.

< Message edited by Courtenay -- 9/8/2021 12:52:44 AM >

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