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Allied AAR - 4/16/2002 10:41:15 PM   
Snigbert

 

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It seems like all of the AARs I've read lately (and written for that matter) have been played as the Japanese. Personally, I prefer playing as the Japanese. It's a challenge because it's much more difficult to maintain a balancing act between striking out at the Allied forces in order to wear them down, but at the same time taking care not to squander your dwindling resources. All the while waiting for the hammer to come down somewhere and being ready to put up a costly defense in the face of the inevitably overwhelming allied offensive.
But after reading the ongoing AAR by IChristie (which is excellent!), it got me thinking about how much of an effect the Battle of Midway really had on the outcome of the war. Or at least, how much it shortened the war. IChristie shows quite clearly in his AAR that the presence of four more Japanese carriers in the theatre would have created a larger swing in the balance of power favoring the Japanese early in the campaign.
How much more difficult would this have been for the Allies to deal with? Normally when I play the Allies, I play historical scenarios and the only carriers I really worry about are the Zuikaku and Shokaku. I am willing to sacrafice a couple of my own carriers to knock them out of the game early, knowing that reinforcement carriers I receive will have an easy time dealing with the light carriers the Japanese will have remaining.
Playing the full campaign, however, means that if I exchange the Lexington and Yorktown for the Shokaku and Zuikaku, the Japanese still have four fleet carriers readily available and I have to wait for my reinforcement carriers to trickle in over the period of the next few months. If the Allied player isn't careful, the Japanese player could take out the American carriers as they arrive with 4:1 or 2:1 advantage in carriers. Not including the light carriers the Japanese would have as an additional advantage. A smart Japanese player could avoid the Coral Sea conflict which typically happens between the Lexington/Yorktown and Shokaku/Zuikaku, and wait for his reinforcements so he would have 6 or more carriers to send out... a force the allied player wouldn't be able to match until the early fall. It really takes away the feeling of offensive momentum in the region for the Allies.
So I thought I would try a long campaign, starting May 1 1942 and play it out through December 31 1943. I played the first month of the campaign last night. It went fairly quickly, because at the beginning of the campaign there really aren't too many options for the Allied player.


May 1st, 1942: A general disposition of my forces.

Ground Forces: New Guinea is very lightly defended. A Regiment in Port Moresby, along with some support units for the base. In the Owen Stanleys I have the Kanga Detachment, a light infantry unit which starts out very low on supplies.
In Australia, most of the coastal cities are defended by at least a regiment. I plan on leaving these units in place for the duration. In Brisbane the Australian 7th Infantry division is at my disposal.
In New Caledonia, the Americal Division is stationed to defend the island. Most likely they'll be staying put for the duration as well. I have small base forces at Luganville and Port Vila as well.

Air Forces: I have 5 B-17 airgroups in Australia, but none of them have more than 8 planes. I'll have to give them some time to build up, perhaps in a few months they'll have enough planes and training to make them a fearsome force.
The Australian coast is sprinkled with airgroups...some Hudsons, Wirraways, Kittyhawks, Marauders, Aircobras. Nothing too impressive. Port Moresby has a group of hudsons and a group of Dauntless dive bombers, along with a group of Kittyhawks and and two aircobra groups. I order the fighters and fighter/bombers to fly CAP and leave the bombers on Naval Attack.
Naval Forces: In Brisbane there are about 20 transports, APs and AKs. A handful of mine sweepers and about 10 patrol boats. Also there are 10 or so S-Type submarines, which I order to patrol in the vicinity or Rabaul and Lae. CA Chicago, CA Australia and CL Hobart are the only significant ships there.
At Noumea is a carrier Task Force with the Lexington, Yorktown, 5 cruisers and some destroyers. I put Spruance in charge of the Task Force, but don't give them any orders yet.

I plan on observing what the Japanese are up to, and trying to counter them where possible. I also plan on reinforcing Port Moresby and Gili Gili when I have the resources available. I send a large convoy to resupply Port Moresby from Brisbane.

May 2nd, 1942: S-47 attacks the CL Tatsuta north of Rabaul. No hits are scored.

May 3rd, 1942: The first air attack against Port Moresby from Rabaul. It consists of 27 Zeros and 11 Bettys. It does light damage, but for the rest of the month there would be daily air attacks on the airfield there.

Japanese forces landed at Lunga.

May 4th, 1942: Japanese forces land at Tulagi.

I decide to send the carrier task force to patrol off of San Cristobal, where it should be able to strike the landing ships on Lunga and Tulagi. I allow them to react to enemy carriers.

May 5th, 1942: Lunga falls to about 850 Japanese troops. Tulagi falls to about 2000 Japanese troops.

I reinforce Port Moresby with another squadron of P-400s from Australia.

May 6th, 1942: Two Japanese carriers are spotted near Choiseul. Our task force reacts and intercepts them near Santa Isobel.

Coming Next (After lunch), Lexington and Yorktown meet Shokaku, Zuikaku and Shoho!
Post #: 1
Hey get back here - 4/16/2002 10:50:56 PM   
mogami


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Hey everybody the Snigbert AAR is here!!!!
This looks to be really interesting. IMHO the allie needs to duplicate the Midway success only without knowing when or where. I want to see if the Japanese AI trys over the course of the game to secure the auto victory.

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Post #: 2
- 4/16/2002 11:06:03 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Another soon to be huge thread. Should have IChristie and Snigbert go head to head. AARs are great guys, but like I said earlier, they are like porn movies....interesting but not like being there.:)

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- 4/16/2002 11:14:48 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

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It'd better get out ASAP so I can get it ordered, overnight delivered, and get the manual printed out...I leave for Japan in less than 2 weeks on business, and would sure like to have it on my laptop. It'd keep me out of bars at night, LOL.

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The Cavalry Arrives! - 4/16/2002 11:17:30 PM   
IChristie

 

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Snigbert, thank goodness you're here. What took you so long?

Maybe now I can get some sleep....

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Post #: 5
Lunch - 4/16/2002 11:48:39 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Pretty big lunch or what? Don't ya know there's a war on?;)

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Post #: 6
- 4/17/2002 12:56:42 AM   
Snigbert

 

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*burp*

Okay, where was I?


May 6th...

Basically, my goal is to preserve my carrier force and slowly let it build up until I have enough carriers to counter the Japanese.
Unfortunately, my plan was overtaken by events. My mistake, in hindsight, was allowing my carriers to react to the enemy carriers. Our patrols had spotted the Japanese carriers loitering around Shortlands, and before I knew it my own task force took off up the Slot after them like a greyhound chasing a stuffed rabit.

The battle took place South of San Isobel, which is really much further away from friendly territory than I would have liked them to be. Especially with Lunga and Tulagi now in enemy hands...it meant I had enemy carriers closing off the slot to the Northwest and enemy surface ships closing off the slot to the Southeast.

WAVE ONE: Our first wave of planes strikes first at the enemy carriers. They are quickly identified as the Shokaku, Zuikaku and Shoho. No big surprise there. About thirty devastators and dauntlesses along with an escort of 12 wildcats make it through the cap of approximately 30 Zeros.

The Shokaku is the first ship attacked, as a group of 4 Dauntlesses dive at her and score 3 out of 4 hits! The third hit causes a fuel storage explosion, and she's on fire. So far so good!

The Shoho then becomes the next victim as she is hit by a 22 inch MK13 torpedo from a Devastator. Follow this with 4 1000 lb bomb hits from the Dauntlesses. Several are critical hits. Ammo explodes in her magazine. Goodbye, Shoho.

We wouldn't want to let the Shokaku and Shoho have all the fun, so a flight of Dauntlesses and Devastators attack the Zuikaku as well. A hit with a 22 inch MK 13 torpedo, followed by a 1000 lb bomb hit, and she is shaken.

A bomb also hit the DD Akebeno, causing critical damage to her as well.

In the first attack we lose 33 planes, 10 destroyed and the rest damaged.

WAVE TWO: A second wave moves in consisting of 3 Wildcats and 12 Devastators. Evidently these guys got separated from the rest of the force. They score no hits on the Japanese carriers, and all 12 of the devastators are either destroyed or damaged. Tough break.

WAVE THREE: 28 Dauntless SBDs come in with no escort. The Shokaku, Zuikaku and Shoho receive a bomb hit each. I'm surprised to see the Shoho is still afloat at this point. Both her and the Shokaku are on fire, and heavily damaged. The Zuikaku isn't doing too great either. We lose 8 Dauntlesses in the attack. Surely this is a great victory for the Allies, right?

JAPANESE COUNTERATTACK:
17 Zeros, 39 Vals, 46 Kates attack our task force.

The first 250kg bomb lands on the DD Morris. Alright, we can live with that. Then the Japanese planes fix their sites on the Yorktown...
Seven hits from 250kg Dive bombers...
Four hits from 18" Type 91 torpedos

Lexington is also hit hard, suffering two critical bomb hits and a torpedo hit.

The CA Chester is hit by a torpedo, and the CA Portland suffers a bomb hit.

The cost to the Japanese planes: 3 Zeros destroyed, 1 damaged...3 Vals destroyed, 3 damaged...6 Kates destroyed, 16 damaged.

You can see that Kates aren't quite as good at surviving an attack as Vals, which I think is historically accurate.

The unfortunate side effect of this engagement, is that my carrier planes returning from the attack on the Japanese planes have nowhere within range to land. After the battle I look at the Yorktown and Lexington, which are both still floating but only pulling about 5 knots.
Yorktown has 4 aircraft left, Lexington has 2. I watch the long list of American pilots ditching, being captured, being killed.

I check on the damage sustained as my task force staggers back towards Noumea.

Lexington: System 49 Floatation 44 Fire 16
Morris: System 51 Floatation 19 Fire 30
Yorktown: System 36 Floatation 36 Fire 38
Portland: Sytem 19
Chester: System 19 Floatation 23

If I try to remind myself that at least the Japanese took equally bad damage to their ships, I remember that the point here was not to make an exchange with them. Now I will watch as the rest of their carriers arrive and run wild in the area while I'm waiting for the Enterprise and Hornet to arrive at Pearl Harbor. Then maybe they'll be released to my command. Grr.

May 8th, 1942: While they task force is trying to make it's way back to Noumea, a Japanese sub puts a torpedo into the CA Minneapolis.

May 9th, 1942: S-38 hits Toho Maru near Rabaul, sinking her.

May 11th, 1942: I begin moving the 7th Infantry Division to Port Moresby.
6 minesweepers and 6 PCs are sent to Port Moresby as well.

6 PCs are sent to Luganville. I can use them from there to try and disrupt resupply attempts at Lunga and Tulagi.

May 12th, 1942: Japanese submarine I-29 puts a torpedo into the Lexington. She sinks.

May 13th, 1942: Yorktown makes it back to Noumea. She has got the fires and some of the floatation problems under control.

May 17th, 1942: I send 6 PCs to attack Lunga. They end up in an engagement with a Japanese MSW, MSW WaL, and sink her.
On their way back to Luganville one of the PCs is sunk by a Japanese submarine.

May 20th, 1942: Japanese naval bombardment of Gili Gili. Are they planning on invading Gili Gili?

May 21st, 1942: Yorktown, Morris and Minneapolis are ordered to Pearl Harbor for repairs. Yorktown will be available again in 6 months.

The CVE Long Island and CA New Orleans arrive with a few destroyers to reinforce us at Noumea.

May 22nd, 1942: 3rd Australian Infantry Division arrives at Brisbane as a reinforcement. I immediately begin transporting them to Gili Gili. That will put the 7th Inf. at Port Moresby and 3rd Inf. at Gili Gili.

May 25th, 1942: S-46 hits Aki Maru with 2 torpedoes near Kavieng.


That's what I made it through last night. More to come, I should get some time in tonight to play. Hope you're enjoying it so far.

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Post #: 7
The View from here - 4/17/2002 1:13:19 AM   
IChristie

 

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Thanks for the great report. Must have been quite a wild ride through the carrier battle. What did you feed those guys before they took off? Both sides inflicted more damage than I have seen in a typical carrier strike.

If you want my advice (and even if you don't :D ). Based on seeing this scenario from the other side. I would set about getting airfields started on Renell I. and in the Santa Cruz I. right NOW before Lunga gets operational for offensive missions (mid June, and certainly before it reaches size 4 - Mid to late July).

My own personal opinion is that Lunga is going to be tough to retake once it can base significant numbers of a/c. The Japanese range advantage will mean that you can't close enough to hit it with anything without being exposed to the Betty's and Nells. You will need CAP cover even for bombardment raids. Since the possibility of having carrier air superiority is now effectively gone, I would want some fighter bases close enough to cover anything you send up there. If the AI doesn't like it and tries to forestall things it will cause the Japanese position to become more overextended. As Mogami continues to point out, the goal at this stage is to keep Japanese forces on the move and burning supplies.

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"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
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Post #: 8
Great stuff! - 4/17/2002 1:14:45 AM   
U2


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Thanks Snigbert

Its great to learn more about the US/Australian side for a change. Keep up the good work.

Sayonara

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Post #: 9
- 4/17/2002 1:25:04 AM   
Snigbert

 

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Good advice, I've got to keep them burning resources.

What do you think about trying to disrupt their efforts to build up Lunga? Right now my effective naval fighting force consists of somewhere around 5 heavy cruisers and a light cruiser. And one of them is damaged. You think I should go for naval bombardments on the airfield to try and slow their efforts.

I could try relocating my underequipped B-17 squadrons to Luganville...not sure off the top of my head if the airfield there could support them, though. B-17 raids might slow down the construction on Lunga.

At the end of the month Enterprise and Hornet are at Pearl Harbor but haven't been released to me yet. It will take them a couple weeks to arrive when they are released. Saratoga will be at Pearl Harbor in something like 22 days.

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Post #: 10
- 4/17/2002 1:43:08 AM   
IChristie

 

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Disrupting their efforts sounds good. You might try experimenting with different ways of getting in (going up E of the Santa Cruz and then down) to see if you can avoid the seaplane patrols.

Even a feint toward Shortland

You could use the raid as a diversion while you move some engineers up to Nevea and Rennell.

What do you have in the way of APD's at this stage?

I'm pretty sure that Luganville is big enough to take the B-17's I would go for it. Anything to slow them down. Going to need enough supplies there or they won't fly though and you may find that the raids are pretty small to begin with as long range targets seem to get smaller turnouts.

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Iain Christie
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"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

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Post #: 11
Next move? - 4/17/2002 1:43:10 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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Looks like your naval options are pretty much moot for now. No point in throwing assets into the mill piecemeal. Build up surface forces and rely on subs for now until you've at least 3 carriers.

Air and land assets are probably your only hope at striking back. Bomb the crap out of both Lunga (hopefully delaying Japanese ability to expand this base efficiently) and IJN bases in New Guinea area. I'm assuming B17s take a heavy toll of supplies and can deal well with lightly armed and armoured Japanese fighters. Build up bases and reinforce with large LCU garrisons.

I don't know about establishing bases on Rennel or Santa Cruz as you've no real naval assets to support them.

Dig in boy, and hang on!:)

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Post #: 12
- 4/17/2002 1:55:37 AM   
IChristie

 

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I duuno Ron,

While Lunga is building the area around the Solomons is still pretty much no man's land (water). Remember all the IJN carriers are gone now and the base at SHortland does not support level bombers so there is really no threat to naval ops east of Lunga, other than IJN surface forces.

Drawing IJN forces into and engagement now actually favours the US because they will replace assets and repair damage faster and they, effectively, will have less to protect - so the loss of naval assets will hurt less than for the IJN who have to protect Lunga. Also operating that far east is going to be hard on IJN fuel supplies... I say go for it.

ALso, Luganville is just too far away to be an effective platform for striking Lunga. I'll bet Snigbert will see raids of 3-5 bombers at that range and the damage they will do will be very small. The crews will run down quickly because of the long trip. I don't think air power is going to do it at this stage. Now in July - that will be a different story, but you need bases that are within med bomber range and that isn't Luganville.

One of the things I was really surprised at in this game was the assymmetry in combat ranges. The Betty's Nells and A6M2's all have ranges longer than any US planes except B-17's. The US mediums carry much larger bomb loads. It means the US is an inside brawler and the Japanese player should try to stick and move. Right now, I would make it a priority to get LBA bases close enough to Lunga to delivery the knockout blow when the time comes. The US materiel advantage in late summer will be largely negated without it.

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Iain Christie
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"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

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Post #: 13
My advice limited...no game - 4/17/2002 2:20:21 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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Pretty difficult to devise strategies without the game...there are so many variables. I'd sure hate to be caught by Japanese carrier forces if I had no air cover myself. Do reinforcements become available via a hard schedule or are they randomized somewhat? I'm asking because Iain said all IJN carriers are unavailable. If so, establishing a more northwesterly base would seem worthwhile.

With no Midway default, however, any expansion is extremely risky at this point as Iain is so defty illustrating in his AAR.:)

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Post #: 14
- 4/17/2002 2:31:14 AM   
Snigbert

 

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I could also consider moving the B-17s to Gili Gili, which is close either level 3 or level 4 at the moment. I wonder how much interdiction they could do from there.

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Post #: 15
- 4/17/2002 2:33:58 AM   
IChristie

 

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Alternatively, I could be talking out of one of my orifices not normally reserved for that purpose... :eek:

Time will tell

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Post #: 16
- 4/17/2002 2:45:40 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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Gonna be tough for Snigbert. Snigbert...what about scrapping your infant game and go head to head with Iain. Surely your lives can be put on hold for awhile.:D

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Post #: 17
- 4/17/2002 3:12:58 AM   
IChristie

 

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Unfortunately, we have different versions of the game. I'm still working on a very old beta version and is not compatible with the newest one.

Like I said at the outset, I was just a fill in while the real testers were busy putting this sucker through it's final paces

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Post #: 18
Good Battle - 4/17/2002 5:25:42 AM   
mogami


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Even if more Japaese CV show up I still thought it a good fight and was all in favour The result was spoiled by 2 things. The loss of all the pilots and the the sub nailing Lex. So I guess I will know better then to let them fight when I have my first go at it.

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Post #: 19
Re: Good Battle - 4/17/2002 6:07:49 AM   
Beckles

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B]The loss of all the pilots ... [/B][/QUOTE]

Sure seems like the wholesale loss of all those pilots is a bit unrealistic ... worst case wouldn't they return to the carrier to find it too badly damaged to land and then ditch in the vicinity of the TF and be picked up by the DD's?

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Post #: 20
- 4/17/2002 6:26:32 AM   
Snigbert

 

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Yes, but that wouldn't have saved the planes

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Post #: 21
Planes - 4/17/2002 6:37:40 AM   
mogami


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The planes are not important, in the time it takes to repair the CV plenty of new planes. Pilots on the other hand...... (I know plenty of new pilots will be trained but it is a shame to lose these ones since they proved they could do the job) I think lifeguard subs should be allowed (station subs in battle zone to pick up downed pilots-also PBY resuce) The demands of the wanna be player are endless.........

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Post #: 22
- 4/17/2002 7:28:14 AM   
Snigbert

 

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Alright, here's a trivia question...which location in Santa Cruz Islands is best for a base.

A. Ocili
B. Vana
C. Nevea
D. Lomlom

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Post #: 23
- 4/17/2002 7:28:38 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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Pilots should not all be lost because the CVs decks are a shambles; that's why DDs were tasked as plane guards. Any ship would have stopped to save them, the allies, anyway. During the battle of the Coral Sea, the Russell and Hammann were both detached to rescue ditched flyers off Guadalcanal after the Yorktown's strike.

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Post #: 24
Uncommon Valor - 4/17/2002 7:47:33 AM   
Marine

 

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Is this game available to be purchased, I can't find anywhere that its for sale yet by Matrix. Can someone give me the lowdown.
Thanks.

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Post #: 25
- 4/17/2002 7:59:20 AM   
Snigbert

 

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Ron Saueracker: Maybe I made it sound worse than it actually was...I would say I saw about 20 pilots being captured, crashing, etc.
I'm not sure what happened to the rest, maybe they go back into the universal pilot pool or something. Regardless of what happened to them, I was trying to make the point that it was a disasterous loss of aircraft :)

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Post #: 26
- 4/17/2002 7:59:50 AM   
Snigbert

 

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Marine: We are all anxiously awaiting its release. It might go gold this very week...

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Post #: 27
Re: Uncommon Valor - 4/17/2002 8:00:32 AM   
Mojo

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marine
[B]Is this game available to be purchased, I can't find anywhere that its for sale yet by Matrix. Can someone give me the lowdown.
Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry but it's due to be released very shortly. I hope because this is torture and strictly against the Geneva Convention of 1999 as it relates to war games

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Post #: 28
- 4/17/2002 8:01:00 AM   
madflava13


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Marine,
Not yet, I'm afraid.... Its about to go gold, most likely sometime this week (we all hope!). I'd guess that UV will be shipping by the end of april, first week of may. Let me say that I am not involved with Matrix in any way, so that is just my opinion. I base it on comments made by beta testers and matriz staff, but again, I have no inside info.
She promises to be a beaut though!

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Post #: 29
- 4/17/2002 9:16:07 AM   
IChristie

 

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Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Alright, here's a trivia question...which location in Santa Cruz Islands is best for a base.

A. Ocili
B. Vana
C. Nevea
D. Lomlom
[/QUOTE]
I pick Nevea 'cause it's closest to Lunga and I know that it is rated for at least a size 1 airfield. I don't know how the others are rated. I haven't checked them. IF any of them are rated bigger I take it

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to Snigbert)
Post #: 30
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