Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Halftracks as MICVS?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Halftracks as MICVS? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Halftracks as MICVS? - 8/13/2001 11:20:00 PM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline 		One thing I find in the game is that halftracks with their AAMGs are better infantry killers than infantry is. So, I kill or surpress opposing tanks at long range then close to about 5 hexes and blaze away with those AAMGs. ("invisible" ATGs are still a problem though) In this manner I use halftracks not as an armored battle taxi but as a mobile fighing platform. This seems at odds with what I have read. It seems to me that halftracks were kept to the rear once infantry comes into contact and dismounts to fight. If this is so, I am wondering an adjustment needs to be made to prevent this kind of thing. Do you use this tactic, what do you know about the use of halftracks and what do you think about adjusting the AAMGs to stop this?

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.
Post #: 1
- 8/13/2001 11:42:00 PM   
Grimm

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/10/2000
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Status: offline 		I have also found that the german halftracks were very good for fire support. Don't know how "realistic" this is but it works well in the game.

_____________________________

Its what you do
and not what you say
If you're not part of the future
then get out of the way

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 2
- 8/14/2001 1:13:00 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Using Halftracks to support infantry itself does'nt strike me as ahistorical. I've always considered it one of the advantages enjoyed by a truely 'mechanized' force as opposed to either a 'motorized' (unarmored trucks) or a pure infantry force (traditional a.k.a. footpads, no organic transport) True, in the SP-1 days, things got skewed mightily but that was due to problems with the suppression rules as well as the more rigid supression removal routine that went along with em. As such Halftracks became powerhouses and the bane of my existance whenever i'd play an early Soviet type battle (with marginal to low experience) Typical scenes would show Halftracks leading the AI assault (because of their speed) routing and pinning all before them, including TANKS!!!!! Things are much better now so Halftracks appear to work right. They do make great infantry support weapons but one must remember that the scale of SP:WAW can be deceptive in regards to reallife doctorine. For example, the German army in particular was not a fully mechanized army as is commonly thought, due to the reputation and dazzle of the Panzer divisions. A large majority of the army was actually still foot and hoof bound (and more importantly, most of their supply train as well!) As such, and added to a economy that did'nt gear for total war until much later in the war, Halftrack production was modest at best. IIRC, German AFV production was divided evenly into thirds. 1/3 Tanks, 1/3, Assault guns, 1/3 Halftracks(and recon type vehicles) Given their limited numbers in relation to the Army as a whole, one can understand why doctorine would frown on using Halftracks energetically as inf support weapons. They are vulnerable to any and all AT weapons, including AT rifles, and thanks to the better spotting rules in WAW those 'invisible' AT guns can really make the Halftrack close support "tactic" costly to the attacking side. Still, the temptation for the player will remain. Few players voluntarily choose to play the more mundane aspects avail to WAW, such as pure motorized or infantry only scenerios. Most will involve tanks and most will chose mechanized infantry if the points allow, so you'll continue to see a 'proliferation' of halftracks. me, i do attempt to employ my halftracks when i have em, but i'm much more careful now in WAW then in earlier days. The size of my halftrack graveyard is mute testiment to the risks involved in deploying them up front but the short term 'gains' can make it rewarding thats another aspect too in the difference between reallife doctorine and WAW play. Even in a 'campaign' setting we can afford to use our halftracks more reckelessly since they are cheap in points. however in real life, an Pz Div commander (or equivilent in another army) has to bear in mind the potential loss in overall mobility if his footpads lose too many of their halftracks resulting in the panzergrenadier not being able to keep pace with the tanks when the advance continues!

_____________________________


(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 3
- 8/14/2001 1:18:00 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Especially playing defensive, I find halftracks great. I use them as HMGs with VERY good mobility once they've dropped of their troops. So they run from place to place at full speed behind the own lines to fill up gaps. Halftracks doesn't suffer from the can't-fire-your-heavies-when-moving rule, as MGs does. Can't tell if this is in line with actual use, but I guess at least the Germans would, at later stages in the war, throw in anything that could spit bullets. And AAMGS are pretty good at it.

_____________________________


Got StuG?

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 4
- 8/14/2001 1:52:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Nikademus:
Using Halftracks to support infantry itself does'nt strike me as ahistorical. I've always considered it one of the advantages enjoyed by a truely 'mechanized' force as opposed to either a 'motorized' (unarmored trucks) or a pure infantry force (traditional a.k.a. footpads, no organic transport)[snip]

Good response Nikademus. Since SPWaW points are based on a unit's combat power and not on production cost, the cheap halftracks will just remain that way. I am careful to not get them too far out front and I only usually only use a few, primarily because I only use them during the mop up phase. So, I guess that I will just continue to use them as cheap support platforms. However, as I noted in a different thread, how can a crew of two drive around and fire both MGs at the same time.

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 5
- 8/14/2001 2:55:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		On the Eastern Front, German troops would do exactly that. There are numerous AARs stating that the 1/2 tracks would be employed as fire support to suppress Soviet troops until the infantry could close.
Incidentally, this use, and the instances where Wehrmacht forces would actually fight FROM the vehicle, sparked Soviet interest in the concept of MICVs. Which was later copied by the West.
Plus ca change....

_____________________________

"...these go up to eleven."
Nigel Tufnel

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 6
- 8/14/2001 3:10:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Grumble:
On the Eastern Front, German troops would do exactly that.[snip].

Thanks for the response (again!).

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 7
- 8/14/2001 6:31:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		You're welcome.
OT: What is your opinion of McCraven's Book "Spec Ops"?

_____________________________

"...these go up to eleven."
Nigel Tufnel

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 8
- 8/14/2001 9:43:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
One thing I find in the game is that halftracks with their AAMGs are better infantry killers than infantry is. So, I kill or surpress opposing tanks at long range then close to about 5 hexes and blaze away with those AAMGs. ("invisible" ATGs are still a problem though) In this manner I use halftracks not as an armored battle taxi but as a mobile fighing platform. This seems at odds with what I have read. It seems to me that halftracks were kept to the rear once infantry comes into contact and dismounts to fight. If this is so, I am wondering an adjustment needs to be made to prevent this kind of thing. Do you use this tactic, what do you know about the use of halftracks and what do you think about adjusting the AAMGs to stop this?
Even at the start of the war, PZIb are used just as you are using the halftracks, they hose the infantry after the opposing AT capability is gone. If you have a tactic that you think works against the ai, it probobly won't against human opponents. In my experiance, armored infantry is spam in a can, halftracks are just targets for any sort of anti-vehicle weapon. I often take out the light armor first as long as I think I can maintain parity in the later gun v gun duels.
thanks, John.

_____________________________


(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 9
- 8/14/2001 10:47:00 AM   
Kluckenbill

 

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Lancaster, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I've found Halftracks to be quite useful, but a bit fragile. As noted elsewhere, AT rifles and light AT guns are quite accurate and very hard to spot. Therefore I've lost quite a few of my German Halftracks when I tried to use them for medium range infantry support early in the war. The MG accuracy for the halftracks is better than for the rifle squads' MG34's because of the stable pointle mounting. Halftracks are great for running down and annihilating routed enemies. For a quick attack I've found that the best tactic is to spot the defender with recon or infantry, hopefully without taking heavy losses in the process. Move up a few tanks to hose them down and get them disrupted, then close with the infantry and halftracks to finish them off. Pz3's and 4's are pretty immune frontally to AT rifles, as they should be. Obviously artillery is great if you have the time. This works against the AI but I can't imagine this would work very well against a human opponent. In defense, I've found a mixture of MG's and AT guns to be awesome as long as they don't come under heavy artillery fire, or face tanks that they can't penetrate

_____________________________

Target, Cease Fire !

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 10
- 8/16/2001 12:22:00 PM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		I read some place that Patton often had misgivings about the employment of halftracks. He believed that the crews felt they were in a tank, and as a result often took too many risks.

_____________________________

Semper Fi
Randy

The United States Marines: America's 911 Force-The Tip of the Spear

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 11
- 8/16/2001 8:49:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Halftracks are great for suppressing/destroying MGs. And as a base of fire for infantry. They are soft and easy to spot but they move quickly so they can show up where they are needed. As with everything they have their weaknesses which need to be kept in mind always.
WWII was the time where Armoured Personal Carrier tactics were being developed, the out growth of this time is todays MICVs. [ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: pbear ]



_____________________________


(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 12
- 8/16/2001 10:00:00 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		Once my infantry dismounts, it uses halftracks the way they use mortars: added firepower delivered to spotted targets. They start and end their turn in cover to the rear of the infantry. When needed they are called up, pour on some MG fire, and retreat back. Later in the game they can hold VH's, and act as a last ditch mobile reserve. They are even useful in their intended role as armored personal carriers

_____________________________

Squatting in the bush and marking it on a map.

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 13
- 8/16/2001 10:42:00 PM   
Kluckenbill

 

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Lancaster, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

SNIP - Originally posted by 11Bravo:
Once my infantry dismounts, it uses halftracks the way they use mortars: added firepower delivered to spotted targets. They start and end their turn in cover to the rear of the infantry. When needed they are called up, pour on some MG fire, and retreat back.

Me too, unfortunately its hard to pull this off effectively with C&C on. You burn a command or 2 every turn moving the halftracks forward and back.

_____________________________

Target, Cease Fire !

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 14
- 8/17/2001 2:02:00 AM   
Venger

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 7/31/2000
From: Home of the 90mm M46, keeper of the Can O'Whoopass
Status: offline
quote:

Halftracks are great for running down and annihilating routed enemies.]
You BUTCHER!!! Venger
P.S. Yeah they are pretty good at that, or at grabbing that empty victory hex way down low there...

_____________________________


(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 15
- 8/17/2001 8:51:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Venger:
You BUTCHER!!! Venger
P.S. Yeah they are pretty good at that, or at grabbing that empty victory hex way down low there...

Ja, you have zee problem vith grinddddding mien enemy beneth mien tracks.


_____________________________


(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 16
- 8/17/2001 8:52:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Venger:
You BUTCHER!!! Venger
P.S. Yeah they are pretty good at that, or at grabbing that empty victory hex way down low there...

Ja, you have zee problem vith grinddddding mien enemy beneth mien tracks. I just love zee zound za make.


_____________________________


(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 17
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Halftracks as MICVS? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.891