Command Control

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Command Control

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Command Control - 5/24/2000 4:58:00 AM

panda124c

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline

The command control rules are terrible. First: If a unit is out of command control it should be able to Move toward it's last objective and/or towards it's HQ to regain CC. Instead of stopping a unit completely when out of CC why not apply the concept of Combat Friction to out of CC units. The amount of friction would depend on the countries training. This would stop the problem of the overwatch unit that gets left behind. Second: The inability to move when in Defend mode completly negates the concept of alternative firing positions. Again the use of Combat Friction could be used again the amount would depend on the counties training. The use of orders would decrease the Combat Friction effect. While the current CC rules worked well in SP3 (I don't think they do) the reduction in unit size and scale makes them terrible in SPWaW. Great Game in spite of some of the little nits.

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- 5/24/2000 8:45:00 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
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AS far as simulating command and control, you're right! I read an interesting piece on Jim Dunnigan's www.strategypage.com where one of the reviews made aa GREAT observation: basically in the real world C3 is all about ENABLING activity, while in games C3 is all about RESTRICTING what a player can do... Now the C3 rules in the game are there not to simulate C3, but to restrict the player in how flexibly they can use their troops. They have 2 goals: 1) Think platoons when you manuever, not squads. With C2 on the game is not about squad movement, but Platoon movement, your squads are "distributed steps" that make up your platoons. 2) Think ahead. You need to plan your units objectives at least to some extent or you will run out of orders and your units will get "stuck". An artificail penalty? Sure, but if you manuever by platoon (meaning conduct your bound and overwatch by alternating platoons, not squads within platoons) it actually doen't work half bad... That's really what they are about. More to limit what a player can do, not to really simluate C3. Hopefully that will come in time :-) Defend mode needs a little explaination. IT is really a "transition" between troops that are oriented toward advancing toward their objective, and achieving "dug-in" status. "Dug-in" is a bit of a misnomer, it is really more "improved position" but that doesn't fit :-) That is why tanks can "dig-in". Its more moving around within the hex to find a "sweet spot" in the "micro-terrain" within the hex. That is why ot takes a few turns to find it, and its assumed engineers are more better trained in "terrain analysis" and speed the process. So defend means "searching for an improved position" more than "diggin holes in the ground". The effect of Combat friction is shown in the reduction in movement points for being "close to the enemy" (the asterisk) or shot at within 2 turns (#). Though It could also be added to the C3 arena. As it is a lot of players don't like the restrictions on their movement! Everybody likes detail in weapons modelling, but "realistic" C3 rules would have folks wanting my head :-) Hopefully we can "wean them onto it" [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited 05-23-2000).] [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited 05-23-2000).]

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- 5/24/2000 9:41:00 AM

Redleg

Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by pbear: Some responses below that I hope will be of some assistance. [B]The command control rules are terrible. First: If a unit is out of command control it should be able to Move toward it's last objective and/or towards it's HQ to regain CC. If a unit has been assigned an objective beforehand, it will procede toward that objective. Scenarios are often designed to be played with C/C turned off. But if units are assigned objectives when the scenario is created, they will also work in the *normal* fashion. Second: The inability to move when in Defend mode completly negates the concept of alternative firing positions. The same principle applies to setting objectives when deploying in a defend/delay mission. My own technique is to be sure that all units without radios are close to a leader. Also, I *always* (unless I forget) change the stance in delay/defend missions during the deploy phase. In this manner, I can move all units to at least the objective I set (For poor quality troops without radios) that may be all that is possible. For higher quality troops, it is extremely flexible. IMO, the C/C rules are every bit as adequate in SPWAW as they were in SP3 - and they work exactly the same way except SPWAW is easier to deal with.

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