C&C what's the difference?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> C&C what's the difference?

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C&C what's the difference? - 10/10/2001 3:02:00 AM

Larry Holt

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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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OK, The board is slowing down so its time to talk basics. Interrogative: who knows the difference between command and control?

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- 10/10/2001 4:18:00 AM

color

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I'll give it a try. Command:
Having the infrastructure to and issuing the necessary orders to the men under your control for them to do what you want them to do. Control:
Whether or not your men do as you expected them to do, failure being due misinterpreted orders, lack of competence or events interfering in their execution.

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- 10/10/2001 4:20:00 AM

Dave R

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Ok. Just my pennies worth on this. Command is the art of giving the correct orders to deal with a given situation. Control is the art of actually getting your troops to execute those orders!

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- 10/11/2001 8:02:00 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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Dave you got the best answer. Command is an issue of authority to make decisions, issue orders and be accountable for them. Control is the ability to have men and material conform to those orders. In the game this can be effected by: -Shooting at or protecting the leader "0" units -Deploying emplacements (HQ tents & CPs) these help with reducing suppression (entrenched troops can now be within 6 hexes of emplacements and receive help reducing suppression and rally.) -Masking the LOS of units to leader units by smoke (effective when units or leaders do not have radios) -Attacking FO units thus forcing unit leaders to spend orders on indirect fires instead of maneuver

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Never take counsel of your fears.

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Post #: 4

- 10/12/2001 9:10:00 PM

challenge

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From: Austin, TX
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I understand the definitions given, but I have a much more pertenant question: I am in a WWII campaign against the computer (I've only been playing this for a week) with about 3000 points worth of core units (all brand new, right out of the box) and have run into what I consider a major snafu. I am invading Poland with the a GE motorized brigade (basically) with heavy ob art spt. My core companies - 2 mot inf co, 1 med pzr co, and a plt of engineers are not moving. settings are:
All CC is on, and anything else to make my life miserable. All plts have objectives set during deployment;
Everything is loaded on the trucks;
All are set to "Advance to:";
Way points are set;
They all have visual or radio contact with the HQ chain, all the way to A0, which is loaded in a command car and moving toward the front;
All have at least 3 command points;
All Co cmd units have 3-4 cmd points;
They are all under Computer control except the Co cmd units and A0; The co art and at guns have moved to the front and are, of course, getting chewed up by the defenders since the infantry isn't there to protect them. Whadidowrong?

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Challenge

War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

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Post #: 5

- 10/12/2001 9:30:00 PM

john g

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Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
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quote:

Originally posted by Challenge:
I understand the definitions given, but I have a much more pertenant question: I am in a WWII campaign against the computer (I've only been playing this for a week) with about 3000 points worth of core units (all brand new, right out of the box) and have run into what I consider a major snafu. I am invading Poland with the a GE motorized brigade (basically) with heavy ob art spt. My core companies - 2 mot inf co, 1 med pzr co, and a plt of engineers are not moving. settings are:
All CC is on, and anything else to make my life miserable. All plts have objectives set during deployment;
Everything is loaded on the trucks;
All are set to "Advance to:";
Way points are set;
They all have visual or radio contact with the HQ chain, all the way to A0, which is loaded in a command car and moving toward the front;
All have at least 3 command points;
All Co cmd units have 3-4 cmd points;
They are all under Computer control except the Co cmd units and A0; The co art and at guns have moved to the front and are, of course, getting chewed up by the defenders since the infantry isn't there to protect them. Whadidowrong?

Since you have computer control on for most of the units, are you trying to simulate detached command (ie no borg hive mind)? I played it similar to that when I first got SPWAW with all the units in my core under computer control except an armored car platoon which was my personal unit. What is your mission? If it was a defend or delay the ai will not move your units forward until the opfor has moved up to contact. Realize the ai moves your units when under comp control at the end of the turn after you press the end of turn button, it moves any that you haven't moved (and sometimes some that you have). It acts as sort of a third player who plays between you and the opfor.
thanks, John.

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- 10/12/2001 9:48:00 PM

challenge

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My mission is an assault. I set the distance on the board (magnification) to where I could see a sizable chunk to watch for movement. Then I moved in tell-tales -- units placed to mark whether the units around them move -- I kept them inplace for three turns and didn't see any change in postion. I figured out the timing on the ai moving my units when they started shooting at things before the ob art fired. What I'm trying to do with the computer control is move the units to the line with the least amount of hassle. Once they get within optimum distance of the immediate objective (ie. the west side of the village, the clump of trees just this side of the mine fileds, etc.) I take control back and deploy a worth while formation to hold the space until the rest of the company comes up. The problem is the scouts find the enemy, but the rest of the company that's supposed to provide the fire power isn't where it needs to be so I can dploy it. Some elements of the compaies are moveing -- mostly the at and art units, so they aren't getting inf spt either. I read that using the ai control this way cuts down on the number of cc points used during movement (at least I thought I did)-- something about each movement objective using x number of points. I should point out that the extra supporting inf units I purchased are moving according to plan. [ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Challenge ]

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Challenge

War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

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- 10/12/2001 10:24:00 PM

Charles2222

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Challenge: Hmmm, you may be going into uncharted waters a bit when you talk about giving control to the computer for some of your own forces. I know I've never done it. If relatively nobody is using the AI for their own forces, it wouldn't be too surprizing to find the problem wasn't reported as of yet. Maybe there's some sort of goofy thing like you can't give AI platoons objectives beforehand (and of course you can't change objectives 'after' giving control to the computer - unless it'll let you toggle it on/off, which appears it does) or it'll confuse the AI. I would say that if you had them in defense before giving control to the AI, that might be a problem, but you seem to have that covered.

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- 10/12/2001 10:35:00 PM

challenge

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This has been part of a learning curve thing for me, so I've restarted the campaign twice. Last time it worked the way I expected it to, this time it's not. That's why i think it is probably something I did in setting it up. I just got the unit mix I want, renamed the way I want for starters and thought I had a chance at a go of this. Interesting point you made, C-22, my original settings had all three companies on defend, until after the recon units started forward, but I change them to advance before giving the computer control. And that still doesn't explain why some of the units did move, nor why the non-core support is. [ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Challenge ]

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Challenge

War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

(in reply to Larry Holt)

Post #: 9

- 10/12/2001 11:48:00 PM

Larry Holt

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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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I have successfully used computer control to move my core forces without problems. Since you got your support forces moving OK, I have to believe that you know how to set computer control OK. Since one works (support) and one does not (core) I have to ask, "what is the difference?" Can you review what you did with both to insure that you did not leave something out?

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Never take counsel of your fears.

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Post #: 10

- 10/13/2001 12:55:00 AM

challenge

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Actually, it was a post of yours I read that gave me the idea in the first place. The only things I did to the core units I didn't do to the others was: a) rename the units with Co/Plt/Sq ids so I would know who was who, but since the computer uses the A# designator, that shouldn't make any difference. b) I reassigned vehicles around the brig because the Opel wasn't going to pull a 150 mm How, and I wanted lmgs on the engineer platoon's transports. Besides those two items, I don't think I did anything different. So, in frustration I have started over. I have a different mission, but basically the same core operational units I had before. I took 75 mm Hows this time, so the med trucks can haul them, but I still have the same vehicle type for the engineers. By assigning them to the formation I will see if they have the problem and who else may.

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Challenge

War is unhealthy for die-stamped cardboard and other paper products.

(in reply to Larry Holt)

Post #: 11