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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Plane repairing...

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Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 4:00:57 AM

Rendova

Posts: 405
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline

Sorry if this has been mentioned before....

But the plane repair rate for damaged aircraft seems to be REALLY SLOW..... For example I have the AVG upgrade to P-40E, they go to 72 damaged planes, they have enough Aviation support (90 AS for 83 planes at the base) and After a 10 days they still have only 4 planes flying, they have had 4 shot down and 5 damaged but still that only adds up to 13 planes.... seems like to be going way to slow....

Post #: 1

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 4:32:12 AM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

Repair rates are too FAST actually. Aimed to slow them down, but they need to be slowed down even further frankly.

(in reply to Rendova)

Post #: 2

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 4:44:46 AM

McNaughton

Posts: 113
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline

One thing that I kept on having to get used to is that turns are one day, not one week, like PacWar. When an air group changes over aircraft type, it does take some workup to get the planes operational. One assumes that the aircraft are brought in through road/rail/ship when replacing aircraft (otherwize you SHOULD lose a certain % of aircraft if ferried by pilots resulting in accepted attrition), so they are most likely in crates. Planes have to be uncrated, cleaned, put together and given preliminary tests. Also, rarely did an airgroup switch planes in a combat zone.

Advice. For all of your frontline squadrons turn off replace aircraft with new type. When you get a replacement squadron (or a front turns quiet), and have built up the reserve pool of new aircraft, simply rotate in the new squadron and put the old frontline squadron in reserve and set it to accept new planes. In a month or so it should be up to full strength/readiness.

Replacing a squadron in the front line will give you the same problem you had. Everything is damaged, and air operations will just slow down the process (as repaired planes get damaged, they then have to be repaired, temporarily shelving getting the other aircraft operational). You then have to face the dilemma about keeping an experienced group in the frontlines with older planes, or pull them out for a month to get them new equipment. This also sets up another dilemma, do you keep a reserve of aircraft squadrons ready to fill in when frontline squadrons need upgrading, or to you have everything you can at the front and pull out when you want to replace aircraft?

It could take half a year to upgrade an entire airforce if done properly.

< Message edited by McNaughton -- 7/13/2004 2:48:40 AM >

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 3

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 4:59:54 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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Contrary to popular belief, this is not Total Annihilation or some such. We have to assume that certain realities exist, like fatigue, lack of spare parts, less than optimal operating conditions etc.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to McNaughton)

Post #: 4

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 5:55:45 AM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline

Stand down the planes. They will repair much faster. Shove as much aviation support as you can on the front line.
Strip your rear bases to the bare minimum and ship them to the front.
Seems to me that there is a bonus the more you are over the requirment.

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(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 5

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 2:51:08 PM

DJAndrews

Posts: 305
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Toronto, ON, CA
Status: offline

While familiarizing myself with the new game I ran the tutorial, which has a 100 plane B-29 group at flying out of Satawal, with loads of supplies and plenty of AS. After two missions I had 40 aircraft that would fly; after 5 there were 33 flying. Planes flew at night, at relatively short range and 25000 feet, on alternate days (one on, one resting). After 5 missions the planes were put in standby mode. Three weeks later I had only 36 ready aircraft, so about one plane was repaired per week. This seems slow, but perhaps its an artifact of the B29 type (can't be shot down easily but takes a lot of punishment, that take a long time to fix).

If this is a realistic rate of repair, then a lot of us that have played UV need to re-think how we use bombers (perhaps a good thing). We're going to have to use bombers very sparingly against any kind of 'hard' target or there won't be any left to use in the strategic bombing initiative later on.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 6

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 3:04:13 PM

SunDevil_MatrixForum

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline

If you mean by "standby mode" as stand down, then you also need to make sure that none are set to train aka 0%. Also the more aviation support you have at the base the faster the repairs happen. I have played the same tutorial at least 15 times, with the same setup as you described, and after five days on stand down mode, my B-29's went from 23 available to 65 with morale in the low 90's. Also if you have twice the number of supplies required in the base the repair rate is also suppose to go up. I hope this helps.

(in reply to DJAndrews)

Post #: 7

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 5:03:37 PM

strawbuk

Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline

Re how planes arrive - too minor to model of course but I assume besides in crates, or as 'whole' deck cargo, USed ferry pilots? RAF used them a lot, mostly worm actually, famously soem teh first who master how to land a Beaufighter without kangerooing down teh field. Point is, planes arrive ijn one piece, ready top go once armed.

But other wise agree; planes take lost of repair efforts (the comprehensive histories of 8th AF tell you that and they had first class facilties, and tarmac airfields. I think game works this about right, espeically if as you say, more support increases repair rate.

(in reply to Rendova)

Post #: 8

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 5:16:01 PM

The Gnome

Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendova

Sorry if this has been mentioned before....

But the plane repair rate for damaged aircraft seems to be REALLY SLOW..... For example I have the AVG upgrade to P-40E, they go to 72 damaged planes, they have enough Aviation support (90 AS for 83 planes at the base) and After a 10 days they still have only 4 planes flying, they have had 4 shot down and 5 damaged but still that only adds up to 13 planes.... seems like to be going way to slow....

One thing I noticed last night playing the Allies in Scen 15 is to take a look at the available aviation support at the base. I thought my planes were repairing slowly too, and then I noticed that they would repair as my base forces repaired their av support.

(in reply to Rendova)

Post #: 9

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 6:21:10 PM

Black Cat

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendova

Sorry if this has been mentioned before....

But the plane repair rate for damaged aircraft seems to be REALLY SLOW..... For example I have the AVG upgrade to P-40E, they go to 72 damaged planes, they have enough Aviation support (90 AS for 83 planes at the base) and After a 10 days they still have only 4 planes flying, they have had 4 shot down and 5 damaged but still that only adds up to 13 planes.... seems like to be going way to slow....

After a huge long debate in UV about the issue, the plane repair rates, especially the B-17`s, were slowed down Big Time, this was probably carried over to WITP.

No matter what the very knowlegable & always helpful Mr. Frag says

some people think they have over done the reduction in repair rates.

(in reply to Rendova)

Post #: 10

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 6:50:06 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

No matter what the very knowlegable & always helpful Mr. Frag says some people think they have over done the reduction in repair rates.

There was a new rule added in WitP that deals specifically with *over* flying your assets. Aircraft when flown get damaged even if not involved in combat. This is extremely realistic and the harder you work your planes and the lower your AV support, the more this will affect you.

At no time ever without being grounded for lengthy periods of time for extended maintainence where 100% of aircraft ever available for combat duties. In the malaria areas due to the extremes in climate affecting both men and machines we still have too many aircraft being repaired on a daily basis. It is not bad enough as is yet some people are complaining it is too bad.

Thats like saying you want all your ships with 0% SYS damage. Completely unrealistic.

(in reply to Black Cat)

Post #: 11

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 6:53:25 PM

The Gnome

Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

here was a new rule added in WitP that deals specifically with *over* flying your assets. Aircraft when flown get damaged even if not involved in combat.

Does this explain what happened to my B-17's that I had a 50% training? Day after day more and more would get repaired and one day something like 7 of them ended up needing to be reapaired again. This was after roughly a week to ten days of training.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 12

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 6:54:27 PM

Oliver Heindorf

Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline

reminds me of an old saysing...'we have to deal with the enemy what we currently have avaible'
makes it realistic imho.

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Post #: 13

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 6:54:42 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

quote:

here was a new rule added in WitP that deals specifically with *over* flying your assets. Aircraft when flown get damaged even if not involved in combat.

Does this explain what happened to my B-17's that I had a 50% training? Day after day more and more would get repaired and one day something like 7 of them ended up needing to be reapaired again. This was after roughly a week to ten days of training.

Yes, your training flights were damaging planes ... you were repairing them then flying them and getting them damaged again.

(in reply to The Gnome)

Post #: 14

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 6:56:56 PM

The Gnome

Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

quote:

here was a new rule added in WitP that deals specifically with *over* flying your assets. Aircraft when flown get damaged even if not involved in combat.

Does this explain what happened to my B-17's that I had a 50% training? Day after day more and more would get repaired and one day something like 7 of them ended up needing to be reapaired again. This was after roughly a week to ten days of training.

Yes, your training flights were damaging planes ... you were repairing them then flying them and getting them damaged again.

But what I mean is in a single turn 7 went back into the damaged column when normally I would expect to see 1 or 2 go.... is that what happens with over flight?

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 15

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 7:07:55 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

Heavies take longer to repair then the smaller aircraft. Did you get any replacement aircraft shipped in?

(in reply to The Gnome)

Post #: 16

RE: Plane repairing... - 7/13/2004 7:38:53 PM

tiredoftryingnames

Posts: 1919
Joined: 12/10/2001
From: Chesapeake, Virginia
Status: offline

If you're still flying a group on any missions it's hard to tell how many are actually repaired. If 4 are repaired and 2 damaged during the turn you're going to think that only 2 were repaired. The key is what has been mentioned. If you're trying to a build a unit back up or you've upgraded them then stand down and let them rest and refit. That's what it's representing. Give them time to get back up to strength and clear out the maintenance issues. Once they are repaired you can fly operations and unless you have alot of combat you should keep your head above water with damaged vs repair. After a while it'll catch up and wear and tear will drag a unit down. That is when you stand them down again.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 17