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What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted

 
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What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 4:11:19 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		After several years of playing this now venerable game, I want to get opinions on what this game really is, and also what it isn't.

My personal opinion:

What the game is-- the engine is dated (it originated as a DOS game), but this freely-issued Matrix game is a fantastic introduction to the complexities of tactical combined-arms combat in the WWII era. With this, you get a basic understanding of the capabilities of WWII weapons, in many cases a text describing their history, and a demonstration of how they were employed and performed in combat. Some background in military history is helpful, but not essential. It is entertainment, and it is education.

What it isn't--this a turn-based game, so the flow of actual tactical combat is very abstracted. This is NOT a simulation, as currently defined by the US Military, which deals in real-time gaming. You don't see dead soldiers, a la Close Combat, and seldom do you hear human voices, except as incidentals to the firing of weapons. This definitely isn't a first-person shooter arcade game, with Rambo-types shooting up the bad guys as fast as you can click.

This is my personal take on the value of SPWaW. As a personal addendum, I still think this is the best WWII tactical wargame that ever existed, bar none. It's possibilities are still being explored.

So, what do you guys think?

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 8/26/2004 9:19:39 PM >

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 4:23:52 AM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
So, what do you guys think?


I think that Matrix should release Combat Leader soon

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 4:53:03 AM   
RayM

 

Posts: 310
Joined: 10/19/2000
From: Marlton, NJ USA
Status: offline 		After playing military board and computer games at the operational and strategic levels and ignoring the squad/platoon/company games, for many years, SPWaW was the first serious game that got me interested in playing at the lower levels.

Having played it for some time now, I find it one of my favorite games that I come back to time after time. Add to this the fact that it had a bunch of Pacific theater scenarios and well as one or two small and large campaigns and a Mega Campaign to boot and well... I just had to plunge right in. I'm glad I did.

Augmenting the actual game is the helpful SPWaW community as manifested in the forums. Very helpful.

Overall, a very good value.

(in reply to Gallo Rojo)
Post #: 3
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 5:51:25 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Gallo Rojo, I agree with you, to a point. Combat Leader is promised to be the next generation of tactical WWII games. It hasn't been released yet. However, the CL forum is open for comments.

As for SPWaW, what specifically are your complaints?

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 6:09:43 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RayM

After playing military board and computer games at the operational and strategic levels and ignoring the squad/platoon/company games, for many years, SPWaW was the first serious game that got me interested in playing at the lower levels.

Having played it for some time now, I find it one of my favorite games that I come back to time after time. Add to this the fact that it had a bunch of Pacific theater scenarios and well as one or two small and large campaigns and a Mega Campaign to boot and well... I just had to plunge right in. I'm glad I did.

Augmenting the actual game is the helpful SPWaW community as manifested in the forums. Very helpful.

Overall, a very good value.


Ray, I absolutely agree. I have the old AH tactical boardgames Panzerblitz and the Arab-Israeli Wars, but this game brings it to me, up close and personal, even if it's a dumbed-down version of HAL (from 2001: A Space Odyssey) playing against me. Yeah, I'm usually going to beat him, but once in a while, he can offer up a tough fight.

The best AI challenges are offered in scenarios and Mega-campaigns. The MCs are all tough, with emphasis on "Screaming Eagles". All of the previous expertise in designing MCs led to this one: it is the best overall MC package yet to be offered.

You're a Pacific fan, Ray, so I'd recommend giving the MC "Watchtower" a try.

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 6:19:49 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gallo Rojo

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
So, what do you guys think?


I think that Matrix should release Combat Leader soon



Just so you know Matrix sent the Combat Leader team out to Colordo Springs for a week long Combat Leader developer meeting. Both Tom Proudfoot and Paul Vebber are there working away. Bryan Melvin also spent some time with the guys working over game code and OOB.

I know we been going slow but we feel it will be worth it.

David Heath

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 10:06:09 AM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline 		The longer you take the longer you'll have to wait for the cash!

< Message edited by Muzrub -- 8/27/2004 8:08:01 AM >

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 12:01:09 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I think SPWaW is the best WW2 tactical game I have ever played. What's more it keeps getting better.

I play for a while, eventually find something else of interest, then come back...to find YAU (Yet Another Update)!

I love playing long Generated Campaigns, typically setting to 200 battles - roughly 3 per month for duration of the war. It allows me a role-play element as well as some tactical fun.

I haven't played any of the "real-time" games, nor am I ever likely to unless they are pausable in the same manner as Paradox's offerings. Goes completely against my style of play. I also never play PBEM, preferring FTF using real figures or counters, or simply against the ai. (If I'm going to play against a nother person, I find the social element - chatting, having non-game-related fun - to be very important.) So a half-decent ai would be nice - but seeing as how I normally play vs Soviets I can rationalise the naive ai behaviour, and simply beef up the opponents' strength.

I have played with a Mega Campaign (Desert Fox) but frankly, it's not 'where I'm at'. Same with the pregenerated scenarios or campaigns. Whatever follows on from SPWaW I hope to goodness that it allows the same kind of campaign.

Just a few random neurons firing!

Steve.

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 1:10:47 PM   
Wuotan


Posts: 172
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		My two pence:

It´s a wonderful playground. I see it as a film where i am the main-actor, director
and (partually) the script-writer. "Colonel Wuotan sees the enemy tanks burning, and
a harsh smile covers his face"... good entertainement. And enough reality to fear
the JS-IIMs storming my lines (and no APCR-Ammunition anymore. ). "Simulation"?
Hmmm... i have never been playing with the editors/changing slope, weapons and so
on. I am going to the battlefield and see how i can do my best. That´s all i want.

Greetings!

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 3:24:31 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Steel Panthers is Squad Leader for the computer plain and simple.

Being that I was there when Squad Leader was first released, and being that I am still with ASL and have been there at all time in between I am both an expert on that matter as well as properly informed.

Steel Panthers is a game where the user views the battle from the directly above it. It is a game of individual vehicle units that do not move till you move them. It is a game of squads crews and support assets working toegther. It uses a detailed map that looks just like the actual terrain if viewed from vertically above it.
It models the ability for enemy units to respond to your movement when preset conditions are met. It allows your units to do the same. It allows for limited fog of war in that you can't view what your units couldn't see.

Steel Panthers is a colourful animated version of Squad Leader, in that the units make sounds rather than force the user to artificially do it themselves :) The Units move much as a Squad Leader unit would move in that they conform to hex grids that superimpose a regulated movement.

If Steel Panthers (original SSI release) is anything, it is akin to original release Squad Leader, where as the Matrix Games release is akin to Advanced Squad Leader and a Mega Campaign would be an ASL Historical Module.

The releases from SP Camo make a decent approximation to the third party creations of ASL, as sometimes they are better, sometimes not fully as deluxe.

What Steel Panthers isn't is a tank sim as it is not you actually controlling the actual movement of a tank in hyper realistic action. For a tank sim I suggest you get a tank sim.
Steel Panthers is not a 3d game WEGO or otherwise.

SL/ASL was not 3d either, thus misleading quotes to the effect, that well known games such as Combat Mission or Sudden Strike or Close Combat or Squad Assault being like SL/ASL for computer miss the obvious.
SL/ASL was a turn using complex interleave turn using process set on a 2d board with units that moved individually.

So, if you are one of those that think those four games is closer, you are clearly mistaken.

It is possible to "emulate" to a degree Squad Leader, but only Steel Panthers comes close enough that the notion of making SL/ASL a computer game, is clearly a long difficult and entirely horrible waste of developer resources.
After all, the Up Front card using game was "modelled on" Squad Leader, but only a completely blind person could see it is o nly a close association.

Steel Panthers is a veteran game that has shown it can remain survive and actually outlast games that are only passing fads.
Much in the same way, that SL/ASL has proved even a high cost will not deter people from continuing to lay out massive sums of cash for a design more than 2 decades old as we speak.

There will be games claiming to look like Steel Panthers, and likely very few that will be half as good.

Regardless of the software's age, and capacity to annoy users with new modern powerful systems, it still manages to force us to find even while frustrating, work arounds fixes and solutions to play it.

I have seen many a game with impressive graphics promising incredible effects and detailed simulation come and almost immediately go all while Steel Panthers remains.

Steel Panthers, one of the singularly greatest wargaming achievements for the computer ever produced.

And amazingly, it is free!

< Message edited by Hexed Gamer -- 8/27/2004 1:27:07 PM >

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 4:06:30 PM   
FNG


Posts: 514
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Devizes, UK
Status: offline 		It is the most addictive game I have ever played. I play all sorts, strategy, FPS, console, etc. I have a 1970 edition of PanzerBlitz and a 1972 edition of Panzer Leader. Whatever else comes along, I always end up back playing SP. Whatever its flaws and limitations, it is the only WWII tactical wargame worth playing. I would hate to know just how many hours I have spent playing this series right from SP1 through to the present. As has been mentioned, the fact that it is free is remarkable. Thanks Matrix - I shall be saying 'thanks' with my cash when CL comes out.

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Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

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Post #: 11
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 4:50:32 PM   
vulkansanex

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline 		SPWAW is also free from commercial publisher influences, an evil that has made games geared towards being content-free - tech demos with no gameplay flavour.

Publishers shun from games being to hard and even having any kind of learning curve. The game has to please everybody and make up for its production by sales within a month or two. This is of course impossible and insane and has led to the shelves overflowing with licenced games - the kind of games that will sell no matter the content - as only short time sales count.

SPWAW is free from all of the above and is powered by people who believes in the game and what it is for the sake of the game and its players. - Long live SPWAW!

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Post #: 12
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 6:22:47 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Well to be honest, Steel Panthers, back when there was just Steel Panthers, and no numbers behind the name or additional phrases, had to spend it's own day on the shelf.

But it was also ahead of the pack, it got there first in more ways than one.

Sure there were other good tank games. Wargame Construction Set II Tanks is a good example of a game made well (and it still runs on an XP using computer by the way).

But today, it seems a game won't sell in the absence of 3d and real time and wooooooooonderful graphics tech that ensures the user must absolutely upgrade their system.

I have played a lot of these spendiferous pretty creations that have come out in the interval since Steel Panthers arrived.
Yeah they look neat.
But hmm just as a well stack perfectly proportioned beach bunny would likely make for one heck of a roll in the hay, that is about all you can ask for too.
And some are happy with a shallow skin deep entirely no brainer game.

Steel Panthers has its faults to be sure, but it also is still a great game all the same. And I expect it will still be the yardstick long after all the beach bunnies have lost their shine (for anyone looking for substance).

(in reply to vulkansanex)
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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/27/2004 6:27:22 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Steel Panthers, a wargamers wargame.

Most of the real time 3d and or flashy graphics games are only good if you don't actually WANT a great wargamers wargame.

And just as you can sell Playboy faster and easier to more, than a good issue of National Geographic, Steel Panthers as with all solid wargames will always appeal more to serious wargamers

And the solid reality of the matter is, serious wargamers are less numerous by demographic.
Not surprising when so many publishers will turn out what they turn out, when the point of business is more often about the money, than about anything else.
Can't fault a software producer for understanding simple basics of business to some extent.

But we wargamers get to be the ones that label the producers as being creators of serious wargames or not :)

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 14
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/28/2004 9:03:56 AM   
Lionfish

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/16/2003
Status: offline 		Steel Panthers to me is a great game as in Chess is a great game. What makes them both great games is not the graphics, peices, flashy marketing, or hype - but SOLID GAME PLAY.

Steel Panthers will always be around in some form or fashion because it HAS BECOME the Chess game for PC Tactical Wargames.

The rules have be tried and tested. End of story.

In the future we may see new Steel Panther releases, with new sounds and graphics and maybe even 3d - BUT IT MUST MAINTAIN THE RULES to stay true to it's course. If it does that then it will be here a long, long time.

Every year 3 or 4 chess games come out, yet the rules don't change. They still sell, because it has become a standard, an expectation, a certainty.

I have a sneaky suspision that Combat Leader will be a good and maybe even great game, but I think many will come back to the tried and tested Steel Panthers. Why, because the game play meets with all our expectations. It has become a staple, not just another game.

It is no longer just a game, but core set of rules for Tactical PC Wargaming. It will be mimiced, but I doubt it will be replaced.

You know a game is good, when it's been installed on 3 generations of computers. Damn, I can't say that about any other game.

Thanks to Matrix.

BTW - even though it is Free, I am still buying the General Edition as a donation to Matrix for continuing support of the best tactical pc game.

The should setup a paypal donation for any amount. I think we would all contribute, whether a $1 or $100. If you added up all the money I have dropped on games vs. gameplay hours, I have atleast $500 of game play hours in SP, probably double that.

Thanks again Matrix.

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 15
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/28/2004 2:33:09 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		I normally don't support fauning indulgences of companies regardless of which company.

But I would have to assume Matrix Games might be the inevitable exception to the rule.

David, Lionfish might have a good idea eh, ever seriously thought of setting up a donation option?

I know there are risks, the first that comes to mind being how looking like you are begging for money sends an adverse signal that you are not actually doing well.
But I think no one is going to fault you if you try to let all us appreciative Steel Panthers devotees give a little back to you for all the years you have given to us.

I already have all of what is havable. And even with my dreadful level of income, I could still likely find a few bucks.

(in reply to Lionfish)
Post #: 16
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/28/2004 4:40:59 PM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
As for SPWaW, what specifically are your complaints?



Broadly speaking, there’re nowadays three Steel Panthers versions:

- SPWaW.8
- SPH2H (actually a mode of SPWaW)
- SPWW2v7 (the SPCammo version).

In past times SPWaW was better than SPWW2, but nowadays SPWaW is the worst Steel Panthers version available (this is my personal opinion of course, but it is not only mine: a lot of wargamers think this way)

SPH2H.fr had already outclassed Matrix official’s SPWaWv7.* version and I don’t see how the newest v8.2 has moved a step forward to H2H.fr. Finally, SPWW2v7 plays much better than both H2H and WaW – but has that step back of being a DOS game.

The only really interesting improvement in v8 was the mod-swapper and its interest relies in that a player can swap to another mode (what I can interpret as a good way of… getting out of v8!)
New graphics are nice but they don’t make a good game. And even in graphics, v8 haven’t incorporated winter camouflage icons – a feature that is present in SPH2H since long, and that was incorporated in SPWW2 since v7 (even more: SPWW2v7 units have summer, winter AND dessert cammo, and the unit’s color is automatically defined by the game). The other “improvement” in v8 was the new OOB, but again that’s only another OOB set. Some notorious old times bugs and faults were not fixed.

One of the main reasons for all of the above may be that SPCammo’s design team is still interested and working on its game. Matrix team, on the other hand, have decided to not work anymore in SPWaW but develop an entirely new tactical turn-based game (Combat Leader). That’s potentially an excellent idea. Hence my comment about that Matrix games should release it soon.


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Combat Leader is promised to be the next generation of tactical WWII games. It hasn't been released yet. However, the CL forum is open for comments.


Given the fact that I’m not happy with the development SPWaW had in its final versions, I become to doubt that I will like CL… but since nor the game neither a demo have been released yet I can’t know it by sure.

I know that there's a CL Forum, but any time me or somebody else comes with a specific question about certain topics or ask about if a demo version will be released, the answer goes like this: “If you like SPWaW, you’ll like CL;” period.

So I’m trapped in here: I can either discuss generalities about how CL will be, or I can wait until it was released to discuss specific topics.

So, I would love to see the game (or better, a demo version) released so I can discuss the game in a solid ground.

best,
Gallo Rojo

< Message edited by Gallo Rojo -- 8/28/2004 8:28:41 PM >

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RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/28/2004 5:35:19 PM   
dunham

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/28/2004
Status: offline 		Agreed, it is the best tactical simulation.

It is a true descendant of Kampfgruppe, which was the best tactical simulation on the C64. Anyway, being the best doesn't mean it can't be improved :)
Here's my wish list:

1a Less OpFire (easy solution) - there should be a limit independent of checks. There is a physical limit to how many rounds can be reloaded within a minute.
or
1b Simultaneous actions (complex solution) - allow several units to be moved at once. The hidden AT gun will find it difficult to deal with five tanks advancing on it at once
or
1c Split turns into move planning and execution (change of the game) - as it was in Kampfgruppe. This would slow down the game even more, but give the simulation more realism. You commit your units to what they'll do in the next (say) minute and have to live with the consequences.

2 Eye candy. I don't know if there is a game engine available that could be converted to a hex and turn based game, but graphics like in Close Combat or Silent Storm would be highly appreciated.

3 Refunds for upgraded units. Please give me at least a fraction of the upgraded unit's value back when I buy a new one. Reduce the total points available in a campaign to balance this.

That's all - you're that close to perfect :)

Kai

< Message edited by dunham -- 8/28/2004 3:36:09 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/28/2004 6:06:08 PM   
CatLord


Posts: 312
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Lausanne, Switzerland
Status: offline
quote:

As for SPWaW, what specifically are your complaints?

1 - Clunky interface (right click, anyone ?), especially for the editor.
2 - Some funny limits that should disappear in CL (like all those 255-max values)
3 - AI
4 - AI
5 - AI
6 - Did I tell you about the AI ?
7 - I hate RT game. other than IGoUGo it must be, either pausable (a la Paradox), or simultaneous planning/resolution phases.

Other than that, it's still the best land ww2 wargame I play. :)

Cat

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 19
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/28/2004 8:34:36 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Good points dunham. Maybe most will be realised in CL.

We can only hope.

We can only hope CL will ever show :)

Steel Panthers is largely a done deal save for tweaking endlessly the unit values. But chances are the games not going to see evolutionary change beyond unit stat tweaks.

CatLord, yeah the AI in Battle mode is sure dumb. Scenarios are better, Mega Campaigns more challenging.
The game really shines vs humans, but the DYO aspect is near impossible without a large legal text looking sum of custom house rules.
Nope can't buy that, nope can't buy more than 2 of that.

Oh if Steel Panthers was only WEGO, that would be awesome.

(in reply to CatLord)
Post #: 20
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/29/2004 3:22:33 AM   
RayM

 

Posts: 310
Joined: 10/19/2000
From: Marlton, NJ USA
Status: offline 		Hello KG!

I played MC-Watchtower quite a bit in the past but only after I gained some experience with SPWaW in general and existing Pacific theater scenarios in particular. I especially enjoyed Guadalcanal 1942 and the shorter Pacific theater scenarios that came with the DL. I definitily learned quite a bit about tank-infantry combined arms playing the 'Tanks at Munda" scenarios...quite a humbling experience in spite of my knowing better. Still, it is always temping to "hey-diddle-up-the-middle" with you armor, no matter which theater you are playing. I suspect that it is a common feeling among SPWaw gamers when you start out that hopefully you outgrow.

Ray

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 21
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/29/2004 7:26:04 PM   
Baneman

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I've played SP since the first DOS version and bought II & III as well. I was even happier to discover the SPWaW free version for Windows and play V7.1 with some friends and V8 with others ( only just saw 8.2 and haven't downloaded it yet - I hope some of the bugs in 8 are fixed ( eg. troop type info doesn't always show when selecting ).

It's given me hundreds of happy gaming hours and I've always enjoyed its attention to detail and attempts to achieve as much realism as possible. It was always Squad Leader on a PC for me - I actually paid good money for the Squad Leader PC game - anyone who played that ( or tried ) will know what a travesty that was !

Two things :
1) Things I'd like improved - Tanks reversing !!!!!! Why is it that after how-many incarnations of SP, tanks still turn around to move away from the enemy ?? Surely a key-press + mouseclick could tell it to move backwards ( similar to moving to an occupied hex )

2) Question for Gallo Rojo - you speak of
quote:

- SPWaW.8
- SPH2H (actually a mode of SPWaW)
- SPWW2v7 (the SPCammo version).

Now I have owned SP-1, SP-2 and SP-3 plus the freeware versions from 5 to 8 - I'm just not sure what you mean by SPWW2v7 and SPH2H - what versions are these ? Bear in mind that I haven't been on these forums before, so if they're well known, please keep the grilling down to a gentle "char"

Cheers guys

(in reply to RayM)
Post #: 22
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/29/2004 8:00:16 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		"Tanks reversing"

It's code and won't be changed.

SPH2H is the most spectacular mod produced by Panzer Leo made to use SPWaW and some say they will only use that modification to a standard install of the SPWaW game (you need to install SPWaW first initially then let H2H modify portions of it.

Find it here.

http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php

SPWW2v7 is the version put of by SP Camo and is their vision of "the better version". Some agree, some not.

Found here.

http://linetap.com/www/drg/SPCamo.htm

Also found there is SPMBT their reworked Steel Panthers 2 Modern Battles.

(in reply to Baneman)
Post #: 23
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/30/2004 12:14:52 AM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline 		Ditto Hexed Gamer

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Post #: 24
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/30/2004 12:44:40 AM   
Fidel_Helms

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 3/9/2003
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I could never get H2H to work. It would always lock up the mech.exe and would not load. What was really annoying was that mech.exe would keep running as a "process", whatever that is, and hog ALL of my system resources unless I went in and killed it by cancelling the process for mech.exe. If I wanted a big PITA I'd go to a Greek restaurant...

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(in reply to Gallo Rojo)
Post #: 25
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/30/2004 12:57:19 AM   
Fidel_Helms

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 3/9/2003
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		What problems, specifically, do people see with SPWAW? I like it just fine, but then I'm not much of a tactical grognard; I mostly play operational level games.

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(in reply to Fidel_Helms)
Post #: 26
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/30/2004 1:38:26 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		One of my favorite features of the game is its flexibility, and the degree to which a player can customize it to his or her own liking. Having contributed to the OOB team, I can now go back and "fiddle with the numbers" to suit my own whims. I've altered unit armaments and formations, changed their designations, switched some pics and icons, all for my own personal use and the seemingly endless quest to come up with the "perfect" core force for a given nation and year.

For the obsessive "tweakers" amongst us, there's enough data in this package to allow one to crunch numbers for several lifetimes. Of course, this can be a double-edged sword, as anyone who has worked on the OOBs well knows.

That being said, I wouldn't have gotten involved unless I loved the game, in spite of its age and its quirkiness. Hmm, this sounds like something my wife could say about me.

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(in reply to Fidel_Helms)
Post #: 27
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/30/2004 4:48:48 PM   
cadmus

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Columbia, MD
Status: offline 		This thread has caused me to take a few minutes to consider why, after several years, SP:WaW remains such a source of pleasure and fun. For all its limitations and drawbacks (and there are such), it is still the WWII wargame that combines an enormous amount of detail with a relatively approachable set of mechanics ... the classic "easy to learn, difficult to master" syndrome. That richness of detail and flexibility combined with the outstanding support community ... all of you here on this forum, the countless scenario designers and Matrix itself ... have come together to produce a game (actually calling it a game under rates it) that after years of play, remains fresh, challenging and capable of surprise, especially against a human opponent. It really shines in H2H and PBEM, but is still a source of hours and hours of enjoyment in the solitaire mode. And it's still capable of being "immersive", allowing one to get swept up and experience gut-level emotions when an ambush takes you by surprise, or you pull off a really sweet victory. And ... it does all this in spite of well known limitations imposed by the original sub-structure. So, thank you, Matrix, and thank you, all the scenario designers, and oob contributors and all the rest that have given me and my pbem buddies years of the best gaming experience we've had since we folded up our ASL boards and packed away the counters.

Now, having said all that ... my reading of the Combat Leader forum suggests to me that the day will come when SP:WaW will be a fond memory and I'll be spending my time ... and my $$$ .. on a new love. But until then, I'm quite content to keep on keeping on with SP:WaW.

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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 28
RE: What SPWaW Is, and What it Isn't:your thoughts wanted - 8/30/2004 6:09:23 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		I concur with Gunny Erwin completely..
I had been addicted to "Tanks",and had problems when Steel Panthers 1st came out because the game required (at that time) a pretty high CPU capability,but in time,I was able to get it going and got a new addiction from then on..
SP was a DOS game and with Bill Gates never happy,Windows kept changing until SP was no longer an "easy option"(and still isn't).
Thank God and Matrix SP was converted into a Windows friendly environment and I suspect SPWAW(this version) will be the DC 3 of computer wargames..
While it has soldiered on for a full decade,it has never lost it's appeal,and remains the #1 WW 2 land tactical wargame all others can be measured against..
Sadly,the good folks at Matrix have limited resources and perhaps limited vision,and have been unable/unwilling to similarly attempt the conversion of the modern era of SP,(which I have no doubt would be a financial hit)..
In all,the wargame market has no replacement for Steel Panthers World At War,as the industry has prostituted itself and has gone toward the appeasement of the "kiddy-o shoot-em-ups",rather than the serious and historical-based study this great gaming engine represents so well..
I would(and do) refer people to SPWAW and MatrixGames at every opportunity.

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(in reply to cadmus)
Post #: 29
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