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Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within.

 
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Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/10/2004 10:27:56 PM   
Kaio23

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 7/21/2002
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Re-posted from my offer in the Opponents forum:

Basically, a "dynamic" campaign works like this: You choose Axis or Allies

We bring up a map of the theatre of your choice. Any number of people can sign up. One for each country. I will be taking Germany, MOST LIKELY. Italy and Japan are open. Keep in mind Japan won't have anything to do with the axis in the initial years. For the Allies, you cannot choose the U.S yet unless they enter the war. Britain, France, China, and the Soviet Union are available to you.

Western/Eastern Europe:



The year is 1940. The Polish invasion has wrapped up, and the Blitzkrieg on Western Europe is now ready. The Low Countries have fallen, and only France remains. France will usually be your opponent, but sometimes there will be British troopers and tanks to help out. Sometimes, like at Dunkirk, the brits will be there as the Allies exclusively. Assuming France falls, we simulate the Battle of Britain in another game like Hearts of Iron (The objective being eliminating and routing most of the air squadrons for Britain). From there, I can do whatever the hell I want with Germany (Although silly Italy will probably be trying to expand in North Africa, just like in real life ). Japan will be duking it out with China until 1941 (I don't have an EXACT date when the alliance was forged, so help me out here) when Japan joins the Axis. Depending whether war was declared with China, Pearl Harbour might occur. If this occurs, U.S is open and launches a pacific campign. If Britain manages to hold out, U.S begins sending troops to the hotspots. This means North Africa, England (Getting ready for invasion) and the pacific.

Asia/Northwestern Pacific:



I don't have much info on early WWII Pacific, so bear with me.

In 1940, I assume Japan was at war with China. As a result, nothing special happens. Japan is free to do what it will (Maybe even join the Allies if they can iron out a peace treaty with whoever is playing...OR GASP! FUSE AN ALLIANCE WITH THE COMMUNISTS? :o ). Keep in mind if the China war goes on long enough, The U.S Oil Embargo will occur, pushing Japan to war with the U.S. At this point, the solutions grow few. For the Allies, China can't do much but try to push back the Japanese horde, calling onto the British to assist. If you hold out long enough, assuming a peace treaty doesn't occur, Pearl Harbour eventually occurs if war is still going on, and the U.S enters the war.

Talk about bailing you out. At that point, anything can happen.

Total pacific theatre:



Steel Panthers would be the tactical side of this arrangements. It has every possible weapon from 1930-1948, so we can do any year, any country, any engagement. Just depends on what you, the Commander in Chief, directs your country to do.

Hearts of Iron would handle air stuff like the Battle of Britain and Naval Engagements (War of the Pacific might be good for the Pacific engagements).

Research and Development

Every four months or so, depending on how fast certain aspects of Industry are going, you can re-prioritize production every "RDP cycle". In an RDP cycle, you can re-balance your forces. This mainly applies to armour and artillery, but new infantry weapons can be developed early too.

For example: As Germany, you hit your first RDP cycle. You currently have the Panzer IIC, IIIF, and IVD as your mainstay armour units. You choose to discontinue Panzer IIC production. This gains you "Production Points". Depending on the country, you'll have a set amount of PPs when you start. Germany will have a few, France will have none most likely, Britain will have a few like Germany. The U.S will have more than most due to it's industry. The Soviet Union doesn't have much, but if war is declared, PPs start flooding in due to the industry starting up for War.

You can use Production Points to:

A) Increase the amount of a unit of your choice produced in the cycle, giving more armour to your panzer units in the next battle

B) If you have sufficient points, research a new tank variant or model.

Technically, you can research TWO new vehicles in a cycle if you have enough PPs, but your armies are going to take a huge blow as a result.

How movement works

A test game I did:

I played Germany, and had several historically-accurate units across the border (I used HoI to analyze where all the divisions were at the time of the krieg). The French had all their historically-accurate divisions and units down to the supply situation they were having then.

The Grand Campaign section of the turn is entirely fueled by your imagination and some simple maps. We use pen and paper to keep track of divisions and province ownerships.

Turn 1: I go.

I launch one of my Panzer Divisions from the Western Germany province (The province to the left of Berlin) to the Belgium province. Since it hasn't retreated or lost a battle since last turn, they are free to move into an enemy province and begin an assault. Since Iit's an all-tank division, I can choose to either attack the province, or "blitz". Blitz is when, if you win the battle in Belgium, the tanks immediatly follow the routing forces to the NORTH EASTERN FRANCE sector. Unless a defensive force is already there, no battle takes place, and the routing units from BELGIUM that retreated are cut off of supply, and are encircled. They eventually will disappear unless they escape from enemy lines, which requires a tricky scenario where you must move your entire force to a certain area while being encircled by the enemy.

Basically, when a battle occurs, we analyze what division it is, what units it is equipped with, and we work out a supply situation for each side. I then can limit what units you purchase in the actual battle.

The strategic map will be pen and paper. The tactical side will be where the games come in.

Anyone in?

AXIS

GERMANY

Reichfuher (Overall Leader) - Kaio23
R&D Foreman - Not Needed
Field Marshall (Runs the battles) - Not Needed

ITALY

Presidente (Overall Leader) - vacant
R&D Foreman - vacant
Field Marshall - vacant

NEUTRAL

JAPAN

Emperor (Overall Leader) - vacant
R&D Foreman - vacant
General - vacant

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

President (OVerall Leader) - vacant and unavailable unless an event occurs that pushes them to war
R&D Foreman - vacant
General - vacant

SOVIET UNION

Chairman (Overall Leader) - vacant
R&D Foreman - vacant
Field Marshall - vacant

ALLIES

GREAT BRITAIN

Prime Minister (Overall Leader) - Milkshake
R&D Foreman - vacant
General - vacant

FRANCE

President - vacant
R&D Foreman - vacant
General - vacant

CHINA [Nationalist]

President - vacant
R&D Foreman - vacant
General - vacant

< Message edited by Kaio23 -- 9/11/2004 4:25:49 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 1:13:44 AM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
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Am I the only one that thinks he has gone off the deep end? :)

(in reply to Kaio23)
Post #: 2
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 1:18:10 AM   
Kaio23

 

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Joined: 7/21/2002
Status: offline
Why do you say that? I did a playtest with this all summer and it was finally resolved with the Soviet Union taking over Europe. Too large-scale?

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 3
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 8:15:34 AM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline
Seems like alot of effort......

So does a battle in france means the loss or conqouring of france?

And we only use vehicles, tanks etc etc based on HOI's development of those vehicles. Hence no major tank development in Germany = no tiger?

I dont mind the idea but I need more info....

_____________________________

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil

(in reply to Kaio23)
Post #: 4
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 9:29:44 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
The idea, IMHO, does have some merit. You're combining two games for a "Total War" equivalent of WWII. Of course, if one would want to get to get involved, it could take years to complete. This is a vision of the future of multi-player wargames. This is not going off the deep end, by any means. I think it is prescient of what games will come in the future.

_____________________________


(in reply to Muzrub)
Post #: 5
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 3:39:08 PM   
TheOverlord


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/13/2002
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
It is a good idea, but as KG mentions it could take years to finish. The additional overhead of managing production points could be a potential headache to deal with too.

Me and some friends have been working on a similar, albeit more simplified, uber campaign along the same lines. We originally were going to to do a 1970's WW3 using SPMBT....but the concept works for any SP game / time frame.

Might be a neat way to do the next world cup...

_____________________________

"Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a sledge hammer. "
-Major Holdridge

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 6
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 6:28:27 PM   
Kaio23

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 7/21/2002
Status: offline
The R&D Foreman is supposed to minimize micromanagement unless you want to do it yourself.

As I said, you CAN research new tank models. The Tiger would take 5 PPs, for example. You can't design your own tanks, though.

In regards to how long it will take, as long as battles get resolved in at least a week a piece, we shouldn't have a problem. WWII would take a year to complete probably.

Already got my first sign up, so U.K's head of state is reserved.

Also, as I said before, the world map is simplified in that it's only provinces. A battle in a province, with the attacker winning, results in routing the defenders. They automatically retreat to the other province, and are broken. They can defend, but can't attack for another round. As you can see, France has only 4-5 provinces. England has only two. We're NOT using Hearts of Iron. I simply might use it to resolve major air battles. The map will be from World at War.

Pacific might take awhile though.

< Message edited by Kaio23 -- 9/11/2004 4:32:53 PM >

(in reply to TheOverlord)
Post #: 7
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 7:34:03 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline
Hmm I think I would rather just post messages back in forth in text form and let someone moderate it and call it a rolegame via email correspondence if you ask me.

It is likely the game would also finish in my life time, make sense a lot more and be a lot less rediculous for the guy running it too.

A person doesn't actually HAVE to combine two computer games with nothing in common to get a nice wargaming experience eh.

I like Steel Panthers for what it is, a tactical wargame.
If you asked me to game out each battle click in Strategic Command with my Steel Panthers game, I would seriously question your mental health :)

Oh and I would assume you were single or trying to become so :)

(in reply to Kaio23)
Post #: 8
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 10:24:52 PM   
Kaio23

 

Posts: 82
Joined: 7/21/2002
Status: offline
If you're going to be an asshat about it, don't post about it at all.

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 9
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/11/2004 10:36:38 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline
Made myself a promise, people that insist on coming to a place inhabited by wargamers, unable to accept that some of those wargamers wouldn't always see things exactly the same way, could get stuffed.

Don't want to interact with me, then don't post your threads in the first place.

You initiated the thread, I took up the challenge of interacting with it.

If that's not good enough for you, there are probably "other" places I won't be found.

I am tired of having to apologise to every person that can't handle my posts just being my views.

(in reply to Kaio23)
Post #: 10
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/12/2004 6:14:52 AM   
Riun T

 

Posts: 1848
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline
Well said,pip,pip,and all that trype!! I definately agree about the having to grovel every time ya say something that pets the cat backwards, but they say thats what keeps the wheels turnin even if in anchest. I like the grand campaign idea, But I think joining those two games would make it a little long in the tooth for play time, and with provincial battles being your deciding factor and winning only giving affect to that province u basically could win an unending circle of 4 provinces touching for the routed force to retreat and could hypatheticly only need to win two battles out of 4 provinces u hold that are touching That could go on forever!!???

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 11
RE: Steel Panthers Grand WWII Campaign. Details within. - 9/13/2004 3:39:38 AM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline
Kaio23 ..............

Your idea is interesting but the game would continue for quite sometime and most people wont see it though to the end.

But it could done, but a little differently.

No more than 3000 defence and 6-7000 offense.


6 players.
3 German 3 allied (French, Brit, Dutch or Belgium)
ie May 1940,
Each fight.........Bang bang bang


If Germany wins 2 of 3 games they win the battle in the West.

If Germany loose 2 of 3 the allies have an option to invade Germany in 1940.

If Allies win 2 of 3 in Germany war over.

If drawn its a stalemate and game over no winners accept world peace..........


Another example Russia!

6 players
3 german / 3 russian...... North front, central and southern.

If Germany win 3 of 3 Russia loose.

If Germany only win 2 of 3 its off to 1942

If Germany only win 1 of 3 its a Soviet invasion of Germany.

If the Soviets win 2 of 3 Germany loose.

War over.

All six players play similtanious turns......... Hence The battle of france could be won in just one turn each. Instead of multiable turns and the unhistorical invasion of Germnay in 1940 could be won in 1 turn each.
Hence it could be just two turns to final victory!


Anyway let me know what you guys think.

And if you have something else to add please do.
This is just a rough idea........... Maybe as a team we could get it up and running?

_____________________________

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil

(in reply to Riun T)
Post #: 12
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