How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat?

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How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/24/2004 5:22:06 AM

KG Erwin

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Do any designers want to touch simulating 21st century ground combat? With the subject matter in the headlines every day, and the ability to distinguish who the "bad guys" are being sometimes questionable, how can this be addressed in game design?

I noticed the same reluctance to approach the Vietnam War until Microprose came up with a great game simply called "Vietnam" during the mid-80s. It was a C-64 game, and I still have a copy of it. It had scenarios covering the 1954-1972 period, and I thought it was very well done. The accompanying booklet was full of information, and it encouraged me to learn more about the strictly military aspects of the war.

Would a similar operational/tactical-level game for the Gulf Wars even be doable? I ask this not to generate political discussion about the merits of the war, but simply to ask if enough information is available to represent it in game format.

Now, given that the regular Iraqi Army was soundly defeated in both wars, but the guerrilla war still rages, a similar approach to Microprose's game may be the solution. In that game, the NVA and VC units were frequently invisible until direct contact was made, and even then, they had a propensity to disappear unless completely surrounded and pulverized by the combined weight of US artillery, airpower, and a tight cordon of ground units. Even if they were destroyed, a cadre could survive and slip away to reform.

This is basically what we are faced with now, so there's a starting point for a game. If you eliminate the political aspect, you are simply faced with this juggernaut trying to swat flies with sledgehammers. Having played that Microprose game many times in past years, it was frustratingly difficult to achieve victory. The game pulled no punches, and graphically illustrated the situation that confounded the US commanders' desire to fix, fight and destroy the enemy.

Would you want to play a game like this, and how should it be approached?

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/23/2004 10:27:18 PM >

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RE: How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/27/2004 1:31:48 AM

Awac835

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There are games out there, but they are more like HTTR, Shrapnel Games have released games like BCT, ATF, Ragin Tiger. TOAW have some modern warfare into it but it should not have been done very well.

I often miss a turn based operationel game thats in the modern era, 1970-2000. But i think it might be hard to add gurilla warfare into a operational wargame.

But would like to see it done if someone would give it a shot.

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RE: How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/27/2004 4:55:36 AM

Sarge

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Can't leave out the imbedded press in 21st century ground warfare.

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RE: How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/27/2004 5:29:13 AM

Hexed Gamer

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KG all you need to do is find a copy of Firepower (the Avalon Hill board game of that name).

Its design would allow you to emulate virtually any combat anywhere any time.

You could even throw in the reporters for that matter.

It's designed as single man counter scale, and is a remarkably well made game.
The player would likely not want to settle for the stock maps though.

If you want to go computer, I think the best course is to just go with a modded Close Combat game. That way the action is small scale and likely immune to politics messing it up.

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RE: How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/27/2004 5:32:13 AM

Goblin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

Can't leave out the imbedded press in 21st century ground warfare.

LMAO!!!

Goblin

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RE: How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/27/2004 5:59:29 AM

KG Erwin

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That WAS pretty funny, Sarge. I can see Dave Heath sitting back in his chair and saying to himself, "Glenn, this is NOT a good idea".

Yeah--David would be right, but the reasons why it's a bad idea only emphasizes why the real-life actions are bad ideas.

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RE: How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/27/2004 10:53:54 AM

Hertston

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Would you want to play a game like this, and how should it be approached?

I wouldn't, to be honest. I much prefer hypothetical scenarios for modern war games (as in Raging Tiger, or even Joint Operations).

First, neither Iraq war (or Afghanistan, or Kosovo etc) was/is a "contest" in the sense that it would make a decent wargame. I'm all in favour our "our boys" sweeping aside the opposition in the most efficient way possible, but a good wargame (especially an MP one) it does not make. There's not even a "decent" counter-insurgency game in there somewhere - and there are so many better choices in relatively recent history.

Sure, the war continues but the Iraqi insurgents are NOT the VC. I'd far rather play a decent strategic level `Nam game anyday.

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RE: How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat? - 11/27/2004 11:32:39 AM

rhondabrwn

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First, I think we have to define exactly "when" in the 21st century we are talking about. Imagine defining how "20th Century Combat" will be conducted in 1904. During that century, we went from horse cavalry to the machine gun, tank, airplane and eventually nuclear weaponry. I imagine the 21st century will see the same increasing sophistication of killing technology.

A few thoughts:

1. Replacement of crewed combat aircraft and heavy fighting vehicles with automated robotic systems.

2. Ground soldiers (I think they'll always be needed to some extent) will be heavily armored and carry massive firepower with them. We may possibly see the "Armored Mechanized Infantry" as in Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" (the book, not the stupid movie) operating in platoons sized units that can cover miles of territory.

3. All weapons systems and armed troops will need to be "stealth enabled" as weapons will be deadly accurate against anything they can see or detect. Victory will go to the side that can defeat the other's concealment and cloaking technologies. There will be a constant race to upgrade electronics and physical attributes of shielding.

4. Military transport will probably be hypersonic with global range, making every part of the world a potential battleground. Such transports will be able to drop automated fighting units or platoons of mechanized information (see above). Detection and interception will play a huge role in defeating such attacks.

5. Strategic nukes will remain "off the table" due to continued viability of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) though it is possible that some form of tactical nukes might be used.

6. Combat area will include orbital and sub-orbital space. Arrays of space based weaponry in armed orbital battle stations is likely.

7. Interplanetary combat with armed spaceships a low possibility, but it can't be ruled out.

8. Interstellar combat? Not in this century!

How do we simulate the above? Well, the computer is absolutely essential because detection is going to be critical, which means total "fog of war". Technological development trees are going to play a major part of the simulation as will economics and production. Combat might resemble BOB/BTR in terms of strategic planning and disposition of combat units and targeting.

I think tactics will be dwarfed by strategic considerations and I don't see individual or squad level actions being very gameable. GW I and II pretty much proved that if "I can see you - you're dead" at least as far as armored combat. Imagine Iraq with M1A1's and well trained crews... I really think the casualty rate of such an equal battle would have been enormous with virtually all tanks disabled or destroyed within minutes of beginning an engagement. Tactics probably wouldn't have helped much, it would have been rate of fire and target acquisition that counted... end up in someone's gunsight and you're dead... period. Not gameable like WWII tank combat with weaker munitions, slower rate of fire, reduced accuracy etc that gave a premium to tactical dispositions, angle of fire, covering terrain and so forth.

OK, what's everybody think? I am way off track here?

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How Do You Simulate 21st Century Combat?