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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Ancients] >> Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar >> Game Scale

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Game Scale - 9/15/2005 4:24:06 AM

KaiserWilly

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: Texas, but I prefer the Fatherland
Status: offline

I just ordered the game and it is on the way, but I'm curious about the game scale.

Does each Roman Unit/Game Piece equate to a Cohort, more than 1 Cohort, or an entire Legion itself? Or is there some other abstract game scale representation? If each piece represents a Cohort then 10 Units would be a Legion in the game?

Thanks!

J Bell

Houston, TX

Post #: 1

RE: Game Scale - 9/15/2005 4:32:44 PM

koiosworks

Posts: 813
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline

Each stand in the game represents 500 men.
Stands are grouped into units.

A legion consists of 4 units.

Three of these units are six stands of infantry short swordsmen. (9000 men total)
One of these units is two stands of cavalry (1000 men).

For your full strength 10,000 man legion.

In reality, due to the way that legions were recruited, most legions were severely understrength, averaging around 4,000 men or so. The Romans tended to not replinish loses, choosing to recruit full legions for an enlistment period and not really replacing loses during the period.

But, in our game you start off with 5 full strength legions in Gaul and we let you have some replacements during the campaign.

Cheers!

(in reply to KaiserWilly)

Post #: 2

RE: Game Scale - 9/15/2005 9:16:15 PM

KaiserWilly

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: Texas, but I prefer the Fatherland
Status: offline

Thanks for the info, but i do not follow your logic.

A full strength legion contained 10 Cohorts of 480 men each, for a total of 4,800. So a FULL strength Legion had 4,800, not 10,000.

Roman Armies on campaign often included more than one legion. In that case you can have a Roman Army of around 10,000. Is that what you mean?

Thanks!

(in reply to koiosworks)

Post #: 3

RE: Game Scale - 9/15/2005 9:38:24 PM

Deride

Posts: 488
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaiserWilly
A full strength legion contained 10 Cohorts of 480 men each, for a total of 4,800. So a FULL strength Legion had 4,800, not 10,000.

A Roman Legion was made up of 10 Cohorts which was made up of 6 Companies which was made up 10 Contubernium. Normally, the Contubernuim were only 80% filled -- theferoe, resulting in 4,800, but capable of supporting 6,000 men.

In TS:JC, we represent each legion as 3 infantry units and 1 mounted unit. The legion infantry units each have 6 stands, and each stand represents 500 souls. Therefore, each infantry unit has 3,000 souls. The mounted unit has 2 stands -- therefore, representing 1,000 souls. That gives us a total of 10,000 souls per legion for TS:JC.

There is a descrepency between our numbers of the actual fighting numbers that the Romans would use on the field. We debated removing a stand from each infantry unit for better historical accuracy, but, frankly, the game didn't play as well since the legions did not get to display the might that they had against the Gauls. We also realized that, as the battle goes on, your legions would not likely be fighting at full strength.

Ultimately, we ended up treating each Legion being made up of 10 companies (instead of 6) and started them at full strength. Again, not 100% historically accurate, but certainly right for game-play reasons. (BTW, legions are just treated as groups of units in the game, so you would never be exposed to the detail difference between our numbers of companies and those used in Roman times.)

Deride

(in reply to KaiserWilly)

Post #: 4

RE: Game Scale - 9/28/2005 11:36:40 PM

DaveB

Posts: 151
Joined: 8/4/2003
From: Forres Scotland
Status: offline

Gotta agree on numbers, 4800 not 10k - as for game play doesn't that suggest the logic for resolving unit battles wasn't sufficiently 'tweaked' to reflect the advantages Roman armies held in matters such as discipline, better command structures and practises ? Gallic disunity and the apparent requirement to let every idiot have his say and vote on the battle plan vs a rigid, hierarchical command structure is going to cost you on the battlefield! If you have to double the size of a unit to obtain 'expected' results then, from a cosmetic point of view, it might be better to double a hidden variable instead? (Double the damage inflicted by all Roman units!)

FWIW everything I've got on Roman armies has figures to match KW's. Legions were recruited en masse in their home stamping grounds and had less than 5k men at formation... full strength legions had 4800 men, they weren't understrength at that figure, that's all they were suppose to have. 8 men to a squad tent, 80 to a century, 6 centuries to a cohort etc

I like the game - it helps the gamer buy into the scenario if they don't see things like 'double actual size' units, however....

(in reply to Deride)

Post #: 5