Nikademus
Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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I dont think even a 'redone' could make these games viable. This is largely because I am against RTS designs when it comes to tactical naval combat. The Fighting Steel project makes for a good example. As released, it was a turkey almost on the level of GNB, but as of version 10.0 it has been turned into a viable naval combat simulator instead of the arcade game it used to be.
But there's still a basic problem. Because the game works in "real time" (vs. turns) you end up sitting there....watching the ship of your choice (unless your zooming out in which case everything is indistinct or unless your fighting off the 2D map) fire.....fire, splashes, maybe take a hit....fire. fire. The end result is, "Yawn"
Dont get me wrong....i'm a major fan of tactical naval combat, but i have to admit, when it comes to fighting a WWI or II naval battle in real time.....it tends to be a bit on the slow side, unless your fighting a close range night knife fight...in which case you then have the opposite problem in that your trying to catch all the action and cant swap between ship views fast enough to take it all in.
Another weakness of FS that was shared by GNB was lack of feedback from the program.
FS will report a "hit" half the time, but often you'll miss it unless your looking at the ship in question forcing frequent pauses of the game while you check ship status. You also dont know what kind of hit, where it hit, whether it penetrated or not etc.....granted a real life commander would not have this info but to be entertaining as a wargame, the user needs it as it's integral to game enjoyment (a big reason why the Steel Panthers series has been so successful for the last decade)
GNB was worse....it never reported shell hits, only torp hits....so you had to watch the 'simulation' view from the bridge and look for telltale explosions on the enemy ship. double yawn.
The only RTS i've ever seen work well was the Combat Mission series for two reasons. The "real time" combat was executed first by the computer and given to the player as a replayable VCR in 60 second increments. You could pause, go forward rewind and catch all the action. Secondly, depending on your Fog of War preference, you could have the game report each hit on your forces or the enemies. Great entertainment and a refreshing alternative to Steel Panther's 2D view.
Some may prefer extreme FOW and 3D real time environments....myself, i'll take turn based 2D display that allows you to catch all the action with FOW elements as an option tailorable to personal tastes.
Sadly i've heard that Gary and company see no profit in a revisit to a tactical WWI/II surface wargame. I live in hope though. I still play Warship on an Apple II emulator. Talk about needing a facelift though.... 
< Message edited by Nikademus -- 10/7/2005 9:47:02 PM >
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Russo-Japanese War - 
tell me if this game is historicaly correct or not. Would it be usefull for studing history of this war 
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