Slitherine

quote:

Australia in the War of 1939–1945. Series 3 – Air, Vol 1 p145.

On 29th October [1940] the Advisory War Council held its first meeting. It called for evidence on all manner of vital war issues from witnesses representing a wide range of Service and civilian authorities . At this meeting Sir John Latham, whose appointment as first Australian Minister to Tokyo was agreed to by the council as "desirable", outlined his conception of the policy Australia should adopt towards Japan. This included a suggestion that the Commonwealth might, as a palliative, place an order with Japan for about £500,000 worth of aircraft. It was possible that such a transaction might put Japan's interests in opposition to those of Germany. The council decided that the proposal should be examined and inquiries made about the types of aircraft Japan could offer. About a month later the Aircraft Production Commission reported that Mitsubishi Shoji Kaisha Ltd was anxious to supply both Service and training types of aircraft. In the negotiations a type similar to the Avro Anson had been sought, but the conditions offered by the Japanese company did not provide for complete delivery until the end of 1941 when, it was considered, the aircraft production capacity of the British Commonwealth would be "more than adequate for all requirements".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

One for the modders....

quote:

Australia in the War of 1939–1945. Series 3 – Air, Vol 1 p145.

On 29th October [1940] the Advisory War Council held its first meeting. It called for evidence on all manner of vital war issues from witnesses representing a wide range of Service and civilian authorities . At this meeting Sir John Latham, whose appointment as first Australian Minister to Tokyo was agreed to by the council as "desirable", outlined his conception of the policy Australia should adopt towards Japan. This included a suggestion that the Commonwealth might, as a palliative, place an order with Japan for about £500,000 worth of aircraft. It was possible that such a transaction might put Japan's interests in opposition to those of Germany. The council decided that the proposal should be examined and inquiries made about the types of aircraft Japan could offer. About a month later the Aircraft Production Commission reported that Mitsubishi Shoji Kaisha Ltd was anxious to supply both Service and training types of aircraft. In the negotiations a type similar to the Avro Anson had been sought, but the conditions offered by the Japanese company did not provide for complete delivery until the end of 1941 when, it was considered, the aircraft production capacity of the British Commonwealth would be "more than adequate for all requirements".

Mitsubishi service as well as training aircraft by end of 1941.
Zeros and Bettys instead of Wirraways and Ansons.
Hmmmmm.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

More likely surplus Claudes and Nells..., the IJN was snarfing up the newer production which was built to meet it's specific requirements. Still, a squadron of Nell's and a couple of Claude's wouldn't have been a bad thing for the Aussies to have on hand in December. Interesting thought.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

More likely surplus Claudes and Nells..., the IJN was snarfing up the newer production which was built to meet it's specific requirements. Still, a squadron of Nell's and a couple of Claude's wouldn't have been a bad thing for the Aussies to have on hand in December. Interesting thought.

Everything I have heard about this transaction all refer to Zeros. I cannot put my hands on hard references to more detailed information so I cannot say for certain.

However, as Claude production (by Mitsubishi) ceased in July 1940, the late 1941 timeframe certainly points toward a Zero order. The 18 month delivery lead time is probably a reflection of the IJN rearmament as you say.

I am sure a few pre-war opinions on the standard of the Japanese aviation might have been altered if Zeros and other Japanese aircraft were available to a Western nation for valid evaluation. (Another what if!!! - No Zero bonus!!!)

On the other hand, knowing the British and US attitude to minor nations, maybe not (they didn't believe Chennault either).

I am not sure which bomber would have been ordered as they never got that far and the initial approach was for trainer aircraft. The negotiations were terminated very early in the process for various reasons so I suppose we will never know but I'm sure Australia would not have settled for 2nd hand/obsolete aircraft. (The Wirraway was acquired as it was a relatively new design and was best aircraft able to be manufactured at the time. The Beaufort was considered cutting edge and production commenced once aircraft manufacturing in Australia had been established).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

It's not a matter of what was being produced. It's a matter of what Mitsubishi would be allowed to export given the demands of the Japanese military. I'm terribly doubtful that the Aussies were going to get any Zero's while the IJN still had pilots flying Claudes....